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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The consensus is clear that, despite the article author's best efforts, notability to Wikipedia's standard has not been demonstrated. JohnCD (talk) 23:07, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

John Estrella

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John Estrella (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Doesn't appear to meet requirements of WP:PEOPLE - lacks independent coverage in reliable sources. PKT(alk) 22:49, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete lacks reliable sources published in independent secondary publications. The Interior(Talk) 23:04, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Deletion Nomination Hello, I think that the affirmation that the article lacks reliable sources is exaggerated. The subject of the article is a well known professional in his field, and author of several books. CMC-Ontario is an independent international association of Certified Management Consultants (CMCs). The PMI Registry is also an independent body. Ryerson University is a very reputable university in Toronto. The Project Management Institute - Southern Ontario Chapter is one of the largest PMI chapters in the world with about 4,500 members. Scouts Canada has 100,000 youth and adult members in Canada. Quest Toronto is a major conference that is sponsored by QAI. All these third parties mention John Estrella, and the references are properly cited. In my opinion, the subject is notable and deletion is not necessary. I am open for suggestions for improving the article from those interested. Thank you! Bogdan — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bogdan247 (talk • contribs) 23:43, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. Being registered with notable organisations does not confer notability onto an individual. Having earned a PMP credit from PMI is trivial information. Being president of a company may be notable if that company is notable. I'm not sure if Agilitek Corporation, as it appears to be another vanity entry. The references requested above are those that are written by third parties, that is newspapers, journals etc. Those sourced from organisations with which the individual is affiliated are not sufficient. Mindmatrix 00:23, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do Not Delete

I've gathered a few more sources which mention John Estrella, and I will also produce newspaper articles on the subject soon:

I would like to point out Dr. Estrella’s affiliation with Ryerson University. That is an irrefutable fact from a credible institution that can easily be verified by someone who is local in the Toronto area either via the Internet or through a phone call to the university.

http://ce-online.ryerson.ca/ce_2010-2011/default.aspx?id=2525

Dr. Estrella is NOT affiliated with the Toronto Association of Systems & Software Quality (TASSQ). The third-party event below is being hosted by IBM in Markham.

http://tassq.org/upcoming-events-markham.php

Shroff Publishers & Distributors Pvt. Ltd., a leading academic and information technology publisher in India distributes his popular software testing book along with books from O'Reilly & Associates, Packt Publishing, Mike Murach & Associates, Rampant TechPress, Pragmatic Bookshelf, IBM Redbooks, MC Press, Discovery Press, etc. http://www.shroffpublishers.com/detail.aspx?cat=0&title=2092

Endeavour http://www.endeavourvolunteer.ca/wp/pro-bono-community/workshops/?menu=com http://www.endeavourvolunteer.ca/photos/album.php?id=5400428388627758561

Here is a YouTube video from the Toronto Stock Exchange http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiGl9WDtX7g

We cannot undermine Dr. Estrella’s involvement with the Project Management Institute (PMI) because his expertise is in project management. Yes, he is affiliated with a particular chapter, the Southern Ontario Chapter, but other PMI chapters in Canada, U.S., Australia and elsewhere have invited him to speak at their events over several years. This clearly demonstrates his expertise and notability in his field over an extended period of time.

PMI Durham Highlands Chapter, Ontario, Canada http://www.onepmi.info/PMIWeb02/EventDetails.aspx?ProductID=2253

PMI Lakeshore, Ontario, Canada http://www.pmi-lakeshore.org/archives/Operational_June_2010_Report_Region3Summit.pdf

PMI Mid-Missouri, USA http://www.pmi-lakeshore.org/archives/Operational_June_2010_Report_Region3Summit.pdf

PMI Canberra, Australia http://www.pmichapters-australia.org.au/canberra/events/chaptereventdetails.asp?evid=63

PMI Financial Services Special Interest Group (SIG) http://www.pmichapters-australia.org.au/canberra/Events/2007%20PMI%20FSSIG%20Webinar%20Program_final.pdf

PMI Project Education Article http://www.pmiteach.org/information_center/articles.aspx

Other References

Mosaic Australia http://www.mosaicprojects.com.au/Company_People.html

Preventing Project Failures http://blog.sealightllc.com/?tag=riskmanagement — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bogdan247 (talk • contribs) 13:13, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • The fact that his works were self published does not mean that he is not a notable authority in his field. I supplied numerous reference to show that.Bogdan247 (talk) 20:53, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: One of several related articles created by Bogdan247, one which has been PRODded and another up at AfD. Having authored a book does not count as a reliable source attesting to the subject's notability; if so, I'd qualify for an article myself. Beyond that, the sources claiming that he is a noted motivational speaker are from his own company's website and the BSA, in which organization the article claims he is heavily involved; scarcely independent sources. It is not enough to find items with his name on it; to qualify under the GNG, there must be reliable, third party, independent sources that describe the subject in "significant detail," such as articles in major newspapers or magazines. None are to be found. [1]  Ravenswing  21:26, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Qworty: Dr. Estrella was on the team of international project management practitioners who revised The Standard for Program Management, Second Edition (p. 297). This book is a global standard approved by the American National Standard (ANSI/PMI 08-002-2008). Using the publisher alone to judge the notability of an author is argumentum ad hominem.

    Please note that several business or business-related books were originally self-published, and some of them still are, such as What Color is Your Parachute by Richard Nelson Bolles (22 editions, 6 million copies, 11 languages), In Search of Excellence by Tom Peters, The One-Minute Manager by Ken Blanchard and Spencer Johnson, Leadership Secrets of Attila the Hun by Wess Roberts and more.

    Ravenswing: “Motivational speaker” was not mentioned anywhere in the Wikipedia article or on his website. He was a “speaker in project management” which is supported by several other websites (and not his company’s website as you noted). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bogdan247 (talkcontribs) 06:24, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: The business-related books and authors you cite have been international best sellers. Estrella's works aren't. They have been extensively reviewed in mainstream publications. Estrella's works haven't. The authors have had substantive coverage in mainstream media. Estrella hasn't. You keep attempting to argue how being on a project management team or having published one's own book makes one notable. This is not the case, and I strongly urge you to review the various links you've been sent so you can gain a better understanding on the applicable criteria.  Ravenswing  17:06, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - This a biography of a working professional. There is no coverage in indpendent reliable sources to establish notability. His books are all self-published, which is often indicative of non-notability, but the key for this is that there is no critical reviews from independent reliable sources about these books. -- Whpq (talk) 14:22, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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