Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Eaton Tourtellotte

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 03:25, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

John Eaton Tourtellotte[edit]

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Does not satisfy WP:SOLDIER or WP:NBIO. Just being a brevet brigadier general does not make notability inherent. See our article Brevet (military) which clearly states Brevet rank in the Union Army, whether in the Regular Army or the United States Volunteers, during and at the conclusion of the American Civil War, may be regarded as an honorary title which conferred none of the authority, precedence, nor pay of real or full rank. There's no indication of other significant coverage outside of a brief entry in the 1917 Encyclopedia of Connecticut Biography which seems to be a genealogical publication that discusses him in the context of being the descendent of a 'Jacob Francis Tourtellotte'. Notability is not WP:INHERITED. (confer prior discussions about similar individuals 1 and 2) Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 19:59, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

...

"aide-de-camp for (very famous general) William Tecumseh Sherman from January 1, 1871, until February 8, 1884" for one thing.

There is page listing about 40 aide-de-camps for General Washington: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington%27s_aides-de-camp

Many or most brevet Union generals have been considered significant. They may not seem important today, but many were very important about 150 years ago. Durindaljb (talk) 11:00, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 04:31, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 04:31, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 04:31, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete fails WP:SOLDIER, as noted by proposer Brevet (military) does not satisfy #2 of WP:SOLDIER and in any event those are just presumptions of notability and he lacks WP:SIGCOV in multiple WP:RS. Mztourist (talk) 06:25, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Also gets a short description at [1], but not much there. Fails NSOLDIER and the GNG. Hog Farm (talk) 21:52, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
possible keep -- A brevet rank is given to a soldier who has distinguished himself, enabling to hold a command above the level of his substantive rank. My question is whether a Brigadier-General is a high enough rank to confer WP notability, a matter of which I am not sure. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:59, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- It certainly is high enough to meet WP:SOLDIER, but it depends whether he actually held the rank while commanding troops or only as a reward after leaving the army. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:02, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
He was brevetted late, according to our list on March 13, 1865 and it was confirmed on March 12, 1866. This makes it highly unlikely that he ever commanded troops in the ACW. Given that this says he re-entered the army after the Civil War as a captain and rose to colonel, it's probable that he never held command as a brigadier general. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 11:45, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Tourtellotte commanded the 4th Minnesota Infantry from at least as far back as the Battle of Champion's Hill after its original colonel moved up to brigade command. As a result, he has some degree of coverage in several Civil War battle histories, such as Timothy B. Smith's The Union Assaults on Vicksburg. He was the commander of the Union garrison in the Battle of Allatoona and as such was the initial commander before Union reinforcements arrived, giving him substantial coverage in an article from the collection The Tennessee Campaign of 1864.[2] I would qualify that this would constitute having a substantial impact on a major action (WP:SOLDIER#4). Per the regimental history and the Official Records, Tourtellotte was elevated to brigade command in April 1865 but it appears that his unit was in reserve at Bentonville, so no combat there, but Allatoona provides the same notability IMO. In addition, while a major postwar he was superintendent of Indian affairs for Utah and so also receives coverage from that aspect of his career. [3], [4]. Kges1901 (talk) 17:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep His notability is obvious in Mankato, Minnesota, which the article should reflect. Tourtellotte Park , Tourtellotte Pool, local lore ... these were found with a five minute search.Comm260 ncu (talk) 17:39, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DMySon 04:10, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz ^Humbug! 07:07, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(changing !vote) Weak keep - Phil Gottschalk's In Deadly Earnest (I've got a print copy in front of me, please take this AGF) seems to indicate that Tourtellotte played a fairly big role at the Battle of Allatoona, which would maybe pass NSOLDIER #4. Allatoona wasn't Gettysburg, but it wasn't Dry Wood Creek either. Hog Farm (talk) 02:08, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.