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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 23:02, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

JoLi

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JoLi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Hard to say exactly how much this meets WP:COMPOSER. I definitely didn't see SIGCOV so that's off the table, but with their sole notable writing credit on "Everything Is Awesome" they pass clause one ("Has credit for writing or co-writing either lyrics or music for a notable composition."). The song also meets multiple parts of WP:MUSICBIO (charting, certs, Grammy nom, etc.) and the duo might also count as "an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians" (although I think the notability of at least one of them is also highly questionable, possibly both), but I'm not sure if those guidelines apply here since they're only songwriters/producers in this duo even though they're also performing musicians in their individual work. It all feels too reliant on the one song credit to be anything but a stretch, but it looks like their non-notability is less obvious than what I immediately thought. QuietHere (talk) 23:54, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also started an AfD on Lisa Harriton. If that clears then we can definitely take "independently notable musicians" off the table. Not starting one on Joshua Bartholomew because the coverage on him might be just enough to scrape by, but if anyone else wants to take a second look at that page that would be appreciated (and if you start an AfD or PROD based on that then please let me know here, thanks). QuietHere (talk) 00:11, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Had a second look and never mind, Bartholomew doesn't look so good either. AfD here. QuietHere (talk) 10:02, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:14, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I'm having a lot of questions about the usage of YouTube as a source. I can't confidently provide an opinion on notability, as though they did write Everything is Awesome, was it just a one-hit wonder? My best idea right now is to maybe merge with Everything is Awesome. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 22:14, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The text represents one more typical and, by now, quite common, attempt to hype up an otherwise obscure and certainly not wikinotable subject. Discarding the overkill of YouTube clips unacceptably deployed as sources, all we're left with are routine listings of gigs and releases, such as this. Purely promotional stuff. -The Gnome (talk) 11:54, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. This is kind of a weird one, on multiple levels. Setting aside the notability of the individual artists, I cannot find a single mention in any of the sources that they are professionally credited as "JoLi." Unless I missed something, "JoLi" isn't on the text of any of the cited sources. Outside of wiki mirrors, the only things that come up for me are their personal website ([1]), a profile on a commercial site they're involved with ([2]), and a passing mention in an interview with an online magazine ([3]). In fact, the oldest reference I can find that they go by this name is...this very Wikipedia page (OK, fine, and whatever this is [4], but that's definitely not a source). It seems worth noting that this doesn't appear to be some invented fan term or anything, because as of 2017 and 2018 it starts appearing in places like Shazam and Spotify—I'm guessing they (re)named themselves, but I can't find any coverage of it. Still, I'm not convinced we should be covering them under a name reliable sources aren't using.
The creator of this article, User:Halle Leah, has almost exclusively edited pages related to this topic; this page, the pages of Lisa Harriton and Joshua Bartholomew (the latter of which they also created), a few minor edits to other composers, and some edits to Everything is Awesome and The Lego Movie specifically about this composition. I strongly suspect a COI here (especially when combined with the fact that this editor seems to have been the first person to use the name "JoLi" or "Jo Li"). I've placed a disclosure request on their talk page, but given they haven't edited since 2017 (and were mostly active in 2015), I don't expect an answer.
Obviously the YouTube citations should go no matter what, but they also aren't needed to support any page contents; they're a misuse of citations to create an exhaustive list of promotional material for The Lego Movie where the song was played. I went ahead and removed them from the page.
Anyways all the weirdness aside, the group JoLi as a duo seems to be essentially unmentioned in reliable sources and thus do not meet WP:GNG. The Grammy nomination (WP:MUSICBIO #8) names them individually ([5]) and this is a guideline which establishes artists which may be notable. Since usually a delete vote carries with it an implication of being open to most ATDs, I should note I don't think there should be a redirect here either, since the name doesn't appear to be established by reliable sources. Dylnuge (Talk • Edits) 01:03, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Adding that this Toronto Star article from February 2015 does mention "Jo Li" (with a space): [6]; it seems like the style change was from Jo Li to JoLi (though still haven't found any source stating that, and they weren't credited either way on Everything is Awesome). Dylnuge (Talk • Edits) 01:30, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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