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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sarahj2107 (talk) 10:05, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

J Barry Grenga

[edit]


J Barry Grenga (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Not enough coverage in reliable sources to pass GNG or NARTIST. The only things I find on this person are social media like LinkedIn. He seems to be a student film maker and "Slow Dancin' Down The Aisles Of The Quickcheck" is a student film on YouTube. I see no evidence it won an Emmy or an Academy Award as claimed in the article. JbhTalk 23:36, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. JbhTalk 00:40, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. JbhTalk 00:40, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Based on expanded content these are "Student" and "College" Emmy/Academy Awards. Not notable but at least not an absurd-on-its-face claim. JbhTalk 00:43, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The only thing he apparently ever did was being a producer for a short student film which was considered for a number of lower tier film awards. The academy award was a "Student Academy Awards" and he didn't actually won, it was the "bronze medal". He clearly does not pass WP:FILMMAKER with this being his only work. Apart from that there seem to be no sources on him in reliable - or any other - sources, not even passing mentions. Therefore he doesnt satisfy WP:GNG too. Based on that he is not notable and the article should be deleted. Dead Mary (talk) 08:12, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The article is complete at this point. To answer some of the points mentioned he's 46 years old and not a student.
These awards are now cited in the article and are also --- PRE internet & received at the same time GOOGLE was launched --- insofar as the online records are not from 2 years ago and so easily recorded by google and bots. The academy awards are more cited than the emmys for some reason. The notability of the person and the film is it pretty much put FSU film school on the map as it were. Prior to this film and its concurrent Academy Award & Emmy Award that film schools' reputation was notable but still questionable in the eyes of the institutions giving the awards aka Academies of TV & Motion Picture. After his thesis film FSU film school "became a thing as it were" the awards ceremonies really began to pay attention to FSU film school after his thesis film, the reputation of the film school is due in no small part to the success of his thesis film. And Student Emmy's and Oscars are considered full tilt "Emmy" and "Academy Award". The citations are documented. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrcitizenx (talk • contribs) 21:04, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Mrcitizenx (talk) 21:16, 12 October 2016 (UTC) — Mrcitizenx (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Only awards awards won count towards notability. In any event student awards do not count towards WP:FILMMAKER. You need to show significant coverage in independent reliable sources ie newspapers (not student papers), magazines, books etc that demonstrates significant critical attention given to the individual not just to the film. See WP:NOTINHERETED. JbhTalk 21:01, 13 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment For your reading pleasure. As an Attorney / Professor I might point to a chain of logic and assist the discussion of inclusion of J Barry Grenga as "notable". (1) The want of online cit able references has been satisfied and the fact that these awards took place when Larry Page / Sergey Brin couldn't afford a cup of coffee should be recognized. (2) Awards that occurred last year will have lots of refs but these were 18 years ago. (3) This Producer's film was if you read the article - the first in that schools history to win a national Academy Award & the first to win both the national Academy Award & national Emmy Award. And the producers efforts in chasing Kodak execs for free film stock resulted in a film (the first in FSU's history to win BIG) this contributed greatly to the reputation of that film school. (3) With regard to the notability of producers as not being notable that is idiocy, if actual shit has an article should not then a Producer be so to given articles ??? And if the much lower on the totem pole script sup has an article so to then should a producer !
[ [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feces
Mrcitizenx (talk) 00:02, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The producer is notable because his efforts allowed Meryl Warren from FSU film school to very proudly make this POST.
05/02/13--09:15: Meryl Warren posted a blog post
Meryl Warren posted a blog post
"we won our first Student Academy Award, Slow Dancin' Down the Aisles of the Quickcheck "
The producer is notable because his Kodak hustle resulted in a multi award winning film & received accolades no OTHER fsu film had & the film industry kept an eye on FSU after this film.
aka [1]
Mrcitizenx (talk) 00:29, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The comment written above is unproductive & pure opinion and clearly indicates laziness on the com-mentor in that he or she has obviously not read the sources ............
In any event student awards do not count towards WP:FILMMAKER. You need to show significant coverage in independent reliable sources ie newspapers (not student papers), magazines, books etc that demonstrates significant critical attention given to the individual not just to the film. See WP:NOTINHERETED. JbhTalk 21:01, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
........... If you think Academy Awards and Emmy Awards and Screenings at Cannes "do not count" you are mistaken. Such awards count in every way to all those who are involved in that industry. Receiving those award opens doors immediately and --- quadruples --- your income coming out of a film school. This particular producer is probably one of less than 5 people in the world who've won both awards.
And also the cited page of notability standards does not in any way preclude shun or disregard student work.
Quote of WP:CREATIVE
Creative professionals
Authors, editors, journalists, filmmakers, photographers, artists, architects, and other creative professionals:
The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors.
The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique.
The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series) or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews.

The person's work (or works) either (a) has become a significant monument, (b) has been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) has won significant critical attention, or (d) is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums.

Mrcitizenx (talk) 00:51, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) @Mrcitizenx: Please read Wikipedia's policy on reliable sources. Blogs are not reliable sources. Please read Wikipedia's general notability guidelines. If there is not significant coverage in reliable sources (except in some special circumstances which do not apply here) then a subject may not have an article on Wikipedia. AfD is a discussion in which arguements are made based solely on Wikipedia's policies and content guidelines. Arguments which consist of special pleadings, WP:OTHERSTUFF, incredulity etc will have no effect on the outcome. There is one and only one way to keep an article on Wikipedia that does not have adequate coverage in reliable sources - find some independent reliable sources and add them to the article.

You should also read what it means to be notable by Wikipedia standards. It is a very specific definition and it centers around what reliable sources exist to write and verify and article. It really has nothing to do with real world achievement and deleting an article is not making a value judgement on a person's accomplishments. Wikipedia exists only to document what secondary sources have already talked about.

You also may want to read this brief tutorial on editing talk pages. So you can properly format your comments. (Please click through the blue links. Those terms are used in particular ways on Wikipedia and the links explain in more detail.) JbhTalk 00:55, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As a counterpoint to your argument of this producer not being notable & evidence of the wikipedia admins' process as deeply deeply flawed as to notability I put forth this person whom I randomly googled and found has a bio article and is not notable, as to your definitions (do fake tech projects and references leading to nowhere make one NOTABLE ???). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Clarke_(computer_scientist) This person and purported and so called (?computer scientist?) is very much less notable, uses blogs as references and clearly created his own page. So the definitions of notability must be then, applied equally. If Ian Clarke is not notable and has an article, then so to the producer in question, should as well.Mrcitizenx (talk) 01:10, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) I am sorry but you are simply wasting your time making arguements like this. Wikipedia even has a term for it WP:OTHERSTUFF and such arguements are simply ignored. Also, please properly format and thread your responses Approval means nothing and continually breaking the threading makes it hard for others to follow the conversation. I gave you a link to a one page tutorial, please read it. If you, as I assume, want to !vote to keep then change your first comment to a bold Keep. As I said before - find and cite sources about the person not the film. Editors here are willing to change their minds and !votes. But they must be convinced with good sources - nothing else, just good sources. JbhTalk 01:37, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The producer made the film when Al Gore invented the internet 18 years ago. Most sources being so old 18 years are not recorded online. The sources that could be found have been found. The film was made by the producer so the sources for the film are for the producer. I could contact the two Academies and procure official documentation and embed them in the article I suppose but this seems drastic. The article itself could be re titled to that of the film but this seems less relevant. As experienced admins you'll have to simply make a call "noteworthy enough or not" ! Obviously I wrote article my first so my position is keep ! Mrcitizenx (talk) 04:02, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Wikipedia rules & guidelines themselves state J Barry Grenga as Producer is noteworthy & an article appropriate. Section "People notable for only one event" as stated by WP:SINGLEEVENT and I quote states "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate". And the first Academy Award & first Academy Award & Emmy Award combination for that film school, is "highly significant". Therefore according to the rules & guidelines of Wikipedia I ask for termination of the deletion request. Mrcitizenx (talk) 04:50, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Does not pass GNG, nor I didn't find those local awards noteworthy. I also tried Wikipedia:Notability (people) and the outcome was not his notability! Sorry, maybe it's too soon. --Mhhossein talk 12:25, 15 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep SEVEN members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences are huddled around a desk as I comment. Our membership in the Academy ranges from 3 years to 27 years. In terms of notability of J Barry Grenga and his contributions to the reputation of FSU Film School, his participation in launching that film school into the "internal los angeles discussions" are incalculable in our collective opinions. We are the authority on the matter not you. Mr. Grenga's film was as mentioned the first of it's kind at FSU receiving an Oscar & Emmy & in Cannes. The article should absolutely remain and if it doesn't members of the "retired" Hollywood community will repost the article. The notion that some person sitting behind their computer would question the absolute honor of winning those awards is preposterous. His article was brought to our attention this last week. To comment on the references the point was made of these awards dating to the founding of google so yes there was an article in Variety the La Times and so forth however google was not in existence to record said article. Someone at the Emmy's has also noticed the lack of his Emmy noted on IMDB and that was taken care of this past week & should be listed on IMDB shortly. In our opinions FSU film school was also as mentioned just barely noticeable. After Mr. Grenga received his Emmy and a few months later Mr. Jackson his Oscar, the "notability" as you folks harp on of FSU Film School went through the roof ! End of story.

SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 21:44, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep Though you've never heard of Mr. Grenga I can assure you his name is know in hollywood circles though he's not worked there in many years. I think the lot of you have no real understanding of what it means to be accepted in an MFA Film School. From a statistical point of view it's easier to get into Harvard Medical School than it is any graduate film school. MFA film programs are coveted by students around the globe and tens of thousands of people apply and very few get accepted. Of the few accepted many quit from the pressure and workload and of those left still fewer are , selected , by the faculty to play key roles in the MFA thesis film process. Of say 50,000 applicants from around the globe Mr. J Barry Grenga was selected for as we understand several MFA programs of which he has his choice. So on the notion of what is "notable" lets really explore that. What is notable ? Someone like Kim Kardashian becomes notable from a sex tape and step father Bruce Jenner for gold metals initially. Notability is not just a general public issue as in these cases but also it's category specific. Right now all around the world young men and woman probably to the tune of more than 100,000 are hurriedly filling out applications to MFA film shcools (NYU, USC, AFI). Twenty years ago that was the list of MFA film programs of note, of notability. The list now reads

(NYU, USC, AFI, FSU). Mr. Grenga is no small part responsible for the catapulting of FSU's reputation. Not being from the world of film you folks seem not to understand the gravity of the EMMY and OSCAR, and it's relevancy and affect on a film schools reputation ! SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:11, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences-participant-ONE

SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:12, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences-participant-TWO

SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:13, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences-participant-THREE

SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:13, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences-participant-FOUR

SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:13, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences-participant-FIVE

SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:14, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences-participant-SIX

SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:14, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences-participant-SEVEN

SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:14, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep More to the point it can be said the Mr. J Barry Grenga is single handedly responsible for the erudite & exalted reputation of FSU Film School. His MFA thesis film won the EMMY and OSCAR and CANNES triple combination of awards because he convinced Kodak to supply a voluminous amount of film stock. His procurement of extra film stock allowed Slow Dancing to be filmed in the same way a professional production would be shot. What that means is you just keep shooting the scene until you get the performances needed from the actor VS having to stop short of a quality performance to make sure you have enough film left for the film shoot. Mr. Grenga made sure his film had MORE film stock than any other MFA thesis film in FSU history. The winning of the EMMY the OSCAR the screening at CANNES was due to extra film stock which allowed the director good performances from the actors. Let's suppose Mr Grenga hadn't gone to fsu and went to another film school. His film there at say NYU would probably have also won the awards. In that case FSU film school might to this day still not have won both the EMMY and OSCAR. In that case the reputation of FSU film school would be much less and the list would still be (NYU, USC, AFI).

SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:29, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep There is a reason HE was selected Valedictorian and not the films Director Tom Jackson ! At the MFA screening the audience loved the film ! The faculty knew they had a winner on their hands ! The faculty knew who was responsible for what !

SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:39, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep The main person objecting to this article USER:JBH is violating wikipedia regulations and will be reported to the site. He keeps deleting comments in favor of the article. He deleted the following comments ...

Keep SEVEN members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences are huddled around a desk as I comment. Our membership in the Academy ranges from 3 years to 27 years. In terms of notability of J Barry Grenga and his contributions to the reputation of FSU Film School, his participation in launching that film school into the "internal los angeles discussions" are incalculable in our collective opinions. We are the authority on the matter not you. Mr. Grenga's film was as mentioned the first of it's kind at FSU receiving an Oscar & Emmy & in Cannes. The article should absolutely remain and if it doesn't members of the "retired" Hollywood community will repost the article. The notion that some person sitting behind their computer would question the absolute honor of winning those awards is preposterous. His article was brought to our attention this last week. To comment on the references the point was made of these awards dating to the founding of google so yes there was an article in Variety the La Times and so forth however google was not in existence to record said article. Someone at the Emmy's has also noticed the lack of his Emmy noted on IMDB and that was taken care of this past week & should be listed on IMDB shortly. In our opinions FSU film school was also as mentioned just barely noticeable. After Mr. Grenga received his Emmy and a few months later Mr. Jackson his Oscar, the "notability" as you folks harp on of FSU Film School went through the roof ! End of story. SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 21:44, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Keep Though you've never heard of Mr. Grenga I can assure you his name is know in hollywood circles though he's not worked there in many years. I think the lot of you have no real understanding of what it means to be accepted in an MFA Film School. From a statistical point of view it's easier to get into Harvard Medical School than it is any graduate film school. MFA film programs are coveted by students around the globe and tens of thousands of people apply and very few get accepted. Of the few accepted many quit from the pressure and workload and of those left still fewer are , selected , by the faculty to play key roles in the MFA thesis film process. Of say 50,000 applicants from around the globe Mr. J Barry Grenga was selected for as we understand several MFA programs of which he has his choice. So on the notion of what is "notable" lets really explore that. What is notable ? Someone like Kim Kardashian becomes notable from a sex tape and step father Bruce Jenner for gold metals initially. Notability is not just a general public issue as in these cases but also it's category specific. Right now all around the world young men and woman probably to the tune of more than 100,000 are hurriedly filling out applications to MFA film shcools (NYU, USC, AFI). Twenty years ago that was the list of MFA film programs of note, of notability. The list now reads (NYU, USC, AFI, FSU). Mr. Grenga is no small part responsible for the catapulting of FSU's reputation. Not being from the world of film you folks seem not to understand the gravity of the EMMY and OSCAR, and it's relevancy and affect on a film schools reputation ! SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:11, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Keep SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences-participant-ONE SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:12, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Keep SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences-participant-TWO SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:13, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Keep SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences-participant-THREE SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:13, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Keep SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences-participant-FOUR SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:13, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Keep SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences-participant-FIVE SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:14, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Keep SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences-participant-SIX SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:14, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Keep SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences-participant-SEVEN SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:14, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Keep More to the point it can be said the Mr. J Barry Grenga is single handedly responsible for the erudite & exalted reputation of FSU Film School. His MFA thesis film won the EMMY and OSCAR and CANNES triple combination of awards because he convinced Kodak to supply a voluminous amount of film stock. His procurement of extra film stock allowed Slow Dancing to be filmed in the same way a professional production would be shot. What that means is you just keep shooting the scene until you get the performances needed from the actor VS having to stop short of a quality performance to make sure you have enough film left for the film shoot. Mr. Grenga made sure his film had MORE film stock than any other MFA thesis film in FSU history. The winning of the EMMY the OSCAR the screening at CANNES was due to extra film stock which allowed the director good performances from the actors. Let's suppose Mr Grenga hadn't gone to fsu and went to another film school. His film there at say NYU would probably have also won the awards. In that case FSU film school might to this day still not have won both the EMMY and OSCAR. In that case the reputation of FSU film school would be much less and the list would still be (NYU, USC, AFI). SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:29, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Keep There is a reason HE was selected Valedictorian and not the films Director Tom Jackson ! At the MFA screening the audience loved the film ! The faculty knew they had a winner on their hands ! The faculty knew who was responsible for what ! SENIOR-MEMBER-of-academy-of-motion-picture-arts-and-sciences (talk) 22:39, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

I will try to contact wikiepedia and report his obvious bios and unethical behavior, as well as redact his edit. Mrcitizenx (talk) 04:15, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. This is apparently a person notable for only one event. According to his IMDb entry, he produced an award-winning student film 17 years ago, but has no other film or television credits before or since. The article gives no indication about what he has done since 1999 -- whether he stayed in the film industry or pursued some other profession -- nor do any of the sources focus specifically upon Grenga as opposed to the film or other personnel of it. (By contrast, this source used in the article at least has three paragraphs of biography of the film's lead actor. I haven't found anything comparable about Grenga himself.) This is not meant to be a slam at Grenga or at the film (which I actually saw myself at the time in a showcase of films being considered for the Student Academy Awards). And saying that the film is a "YouTube" film is misleading because the film was made a few years before YouTube existed, and merely happened to be uploaded later on. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 11:39, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Not even close to passing GNG. And by god, what does a producer on a student film do anyway? Order the pizza? Only in death does duty end (talk) 13:01, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I see a bunch of non-RS sources (IMDb, LinkedIn), some student awards, and press releases from the subject's alma mater. Fails WP:FILMMAKER as noted by jbh. For the record I was brought here by a bunch of drama-ful complaining about this AfD on COIN. It comes as no surprise that the complainant says here he is an attorney. - Brianhe (talk) 13:35, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete While this person may be notable in the eyes of the people who created this article, he's not notable as that term is defined in our rules. There's no evidence on the page, as it currently stands, of significant coverage in multiple, independent reliable sources. I can find none with an admittedly less-than-exhaustive bit of googling, either.
    It's regrettable that the folks who created the article have taken offense at this analysis; they'retheir contentions about the notability of this person are, no doubt, asserted in good faith. And our rules can be inscrutable to new editors. But that's not sufficient reason to keep this article. David in DC (talk) 19:40, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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