Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Iran Software & Hardware Co. (NOSA)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Acather96 (talk) 06:29, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Iran Software & Hardware Co. (NOSA)[edit]

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G11. Unambiguous advertising or promotion. A7. No indication of importance. This article lacks any reliable source to verify its claims and also it certainly lacks notability. The tone of article is good for advertisement. There are hundreds if not thousands of similar companies in Iran. None of them meet the notability requirements of Wikipedia. PSOILFHJFHFDF (talk) 17:44, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Let it snow... Keep. This thing's been here since 2009; if there are problems, fix'em. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 17:47, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, steaming, stinking, pile of self referential spam. No notability asserted whatsoever. Creation date of an article has no bearing on the notability of its subject. WuhWuzDat 18:17, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I just wrote the following in WuhWuzDat's talk page, his response was to flush his history, stating that "you are correct, i have little interest in this subject", I would argue with the current state of discussion and the only user with delete comment who clearly does not care, this article should be snowballed for speedy keep, nothing against the user but it just does not feel good when you are trying to be friendly and give and take advise and the party flushes on you! Rmzadeh ► 19:01, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Hi, Thanks for your vote in the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Iran Software & Hardware Co. (NOSA), I appreciate your honest comment and will attempt to make it a less of a "steaming, stinking, pile of self referential spam" in near future. I would like to argue that while you may have 0 interest in such topic, Wikipedia is a place for information which might prove useful to public, and sharing a search able network of million of records is in the interest of scholars interested in Persian heritage. so is sharing information regarding free open source software and accounting software being used by a thousands of companies. In the article there has been an attempt to be as specific as possible and stick to the facts and the technical side as much as possible. either way I appreciate your honest opinion and will try to improve it.

Please also remember that while you may not care about who put up the article or why, according to Wikipedia, it is wrong to recognize vandalism, the user in question is a very well known abuser of the system in wikipedia Persian with more than 30 closed accounts and ips. Thanks 18:40, 28 March 2011 (UTC)"

Just for the record, my vote still stands. WuhWuzDat 06:40, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the the 3 edits I "flushed" from my talk page were completely unrelated to this AFD. Now, as my previous edit summary stated, "PLEASE STOP TRYING TO PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH."WuhWuzDat 06:47, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The 3 flushes were unrelated but the 4th one was not, and I am not putting words in to your mouth if I'm copying your words! "you are correct, i have little interest in this subject". it's in your talk page edit history and I certainly didn't write it. good day Rmzadeh ► 16:37, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In light of a deleted contribution by a sockpuppet, alleging COI, combined with your editing history (>35% related to this article), and your ferocious defense of the article, as well as your thinly veiled attacks on anyone who differs from your opinion , I must ask, Do you have an undisclosed conflict of interest in relation to the subject of this article?. WuhWuzDat 18:36, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You do know that disclosing other peoples personal information is against wikipedia rules right? and by putting up the link above that is exactly what you are doing. please tell me according to what guideline do you give your self the right to even ask me that question, for someone with such long history of edits, you should do a review of the rules. for from your first rude comment to your follow up flush to this breaking of the rules, nothing you have done has been in good spirit of a respected Wikipedia editor which i believed you to be. now should I ask an administrator to remove the link above or would you like to do it your self and go study WP:OUTING for future reference?

it's very mature of you to go and propose deletion for all my articles including Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pardis Technology Park by the way Rmzadeh ► 19:26, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nowhere in my comment, nor in the link I posted, are any mention of anyone's name. This is NOT a case of outing. This was my asking a question, and my posting of the evidence which lead me to ask said question. The question stands (currently unanswered), and I see no reason to remove anything I have written here. If you have no COI, you have nothing to fear by answering honestly. If you do have COI...well, that would be one possible explanation for your attacks! WuhWuzDat 19:32, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If its spam, and too old for speedy deletion I WILL AfD it, even if written by Jimbo himself. WuhWuzDat 19:32, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

More information can be found in our discussions at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Wuhwuzdat Rmzadeh ► 19:05, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

~~Comment~~Keep Delete unless notability can be referenced. There are claims in the article that seem to suggest the company may be notable, (that they developed a major software application used in Iran, and created the first locally developed software of certain types) but they are completely unreferenced. I'm withholding an outright delete vote to see if anyone can establish notability with refs. Monty ₈₄₅ 18:25, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In light of the sockpuppeting, and the revisions to the article, changing to Keep. Monty ₈₄₅ 21:49, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete without prejudice.~~ I'm torn on this one. The nominator gutted the article before sending it to AfD. While he did take out some clear spam, he also took out some references. They may not be in English, so it's hard to assess them. I agree with Seb az on principle: fixing the article would be a good approach. Unfortunately, I also agree with Wuhwuzdat's assessment of the article's current condition. If the article can be fixed right now, fix it (and let me know so I can reconsider my recommendation). If the easiest approach is to start a new article from scratch, with NPOV and reliable sources, then I'm in favour of that also. (I.e., my delete !vote is without any prejudice against a recreated, improved article; I would support such a creation, at DRV if necessary.)
And just to air this: yes, the nominator has been indefinitely blocked, which calls into question whether the nomination is in good faith. Based on Wuhwuzdat's comment, however, there is a good-faith call for deletion of the article, so I do not think that the status of the nominator should affect the nomination. —C.Fred (talk) 18:29, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Though just to add this: said nominator has been creating sockpuppet accounts; the history of the article will reflect a number of reverts due to block evasion. —C.Fred (talk) 18:43, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

On reflection, keep with option to re-discuss in a few months. I think there are sources out there that need more vetting than the week-long course of the AfD can allow. The tampering with the article and this AfD by a string of sockpuppets also leave a bad taste in my mouth; I'd rather allow some time for thorough investigation. —C.Fred (talk) 18:12, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep With Explanation Please be advised user that put this topic up for delete is a clone of the following banned users whom as a personal attack, first cleaned the references and then put up the topic for speedy delete, followed by this.

PERSIAN KNIGHT 2012
PSOILFHJFHFDF
Asjdirkfjhvciocui
94.182.108.127
Ajlakdjdklajskldaaa
KACLLSJSHDHDH
POLICJHSSHSAAAA
LOL2010197383
KIOKOSHIN 2001918
JACK STEVENSON JUNIOR
Ali Hasibi
..... users as been blocked here or in wikipedia farsi (last updated 22:39, 26 March 2011 (UTC))[reply]

I was on patrol on wikiedia persian yeasterday where I am also active, this user by name of PERSIAN KNIGHT 2012, was doing extreme edits to many of the religious articles, deleting parts of them, removing notable links, and putting removal, notability tag on them. I, among others, followed his work and reverted as necessary. after a few reverts I gave him a friendly warning at which time he started going against me and my articles in wikipedia farsi. After being rude and attacking me and administrators, he was banned by administrators, first for 2 hours, then upon bypassing, for 1 month, followed by 3 months. this user has been attempting to personally attack me ever since. he then started trying to get rid of all my edits including this 2 year old article.

putting the personal intention on this attack aside. this article is regarding a very well known Software Company in Iran, which manages a network of more then 500 bug libraries and data centres, acts as document search engine, and has a digital repository of more then 12 million Iranian books and documents, digital and physical. this article has been mentioned in Iranian new channel over and over, and is used by more than 1 million users daily.

Thier accounting software is the 2nd best known in the country with more then 3000 clients and active users. they also offer open source portal which is based on dotnetnuke which is free to be used, and currently more than 700 Persian websites run on this portal.

This article was discussed in detail 2 years ago for notability and it was decided that it was notable enough at the time, now if you wish to entertain a personal attack by a bad user, I will be glad to increase the sources. just because it is not an english based company, it does not make a non notable company.

thank you. Rmzadeh ► 21:34, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, The issue here is not the motive behind the nomination, nor the sock puppeteering, nor actions by anyone outside the English language Wikipedia, nor even the age of the article itself. The issue to be decided here is the notability of this articles subject. WuhWuzDat 23:50, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Notability and also verifiability. There are three references that, based on URL, appear to be independent. Two return errors; the third is in Farsi(?). While foreign-language sources aren't disqualified, it's hard to assess the article based on what's in there. Were there coverage of the company in English-language reliable sources, it would be easy to assess the notability of the article and verify the claims. —C.Fred (talk) 01:18, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment To answer your requested updated sources in English. you are right, most of the sources are 2 years old, I will update shortly, but one thing to remember is that the company it self is a persian company, and it has so far decided to only operate in Persian, their website is only Persian as well. they have an old English site that has not been updated in a decade, not sure if it still exist. this however does not make them any less notable. I can refer more than 100 persian articles, news agency, and even share news media files (which I will shortly). here are a few worthy sources in english just searching in google.

The following article written by Professor R.Fattahi in Iranian Journal of information science and technology refers to nosa in page 36,37. claiming that "One major step towards developing sophisticated databases with more search/retrieval capabilities has been to integrate online thesauri in the interface of database. NOSA's software is a successful example of such trend. In addition to records retrieved in NOSA, all broader, narrower, and related terms are displayed and a user can modify his/her search with a new term suggested. This hypertext environment makes it easy for user to navigate related records in database. This is a great achievement in Iran which can be exported Internationally." source : [1]

The following article in Emerald written by scholars, titled "The development of union catalogues in Iran: the need for a web based catalogue" is a full text English article which states "Software development corporations started to develop library web-based software and OPACs were developed in Iran. Nowadays, many Iranian academic libraries and most research and public libraries provide OPAC services on their websites. OPAC developments underlined the need for online union catalogues and two Iranian main software development corporations, Pars- Azarakhsh and Nosa began to design some online union catalogue projects. These are:

...
Simorgh Union Catalogue is a web-based union catalogue which can provide users with simultaneous access to 50 academic and special libraries to search their information resources via the internet. The member centers must have Simorgh Library Software, (Alidousti and Hajiazzizi, 2006) ([www.nosa.com/simwebclt/WebAccess/SimWeb Portal.dll?LANG=2]).
..."

Source: [2]

The dollowing article written in Journal of Information Sciences and Technology by Tayabeh Shahmirzadi * and Sirous Davoodzadeh talks in detail about importance of this software in Iran, sadly the full text is in persin but there is a short description in english. Source: [[3]]

Finally here is a list of current online users with english documents in NOSA's network, look at the name of companies available, such as Iranian oil company, Iranian broadcasting company, and most of the big universities here [4] and I do also invite you to run a quick english search in the there or beter yet, here [5] for any english topic of your liking.. you wont be able to understand most of the result, but it will bring you the title.. the link to it's digital copy in nosabook, or google if one exist,and all the detail in dublin or MARC format as well as the current holdings in all of it's centres.

If you still don't think it's important enough, let me know and I will dig up live news reports fro IRINN (Iranian broadcasting association's news agency) and you can watch it. although it will be in Persian but it should at least show notability! Thank you Rmzadeh ► 02:33, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Snow Keep - This article has been out there since 2009, it is a somewhat long reading article, if there are problems within the article, it should be improved, the article itself shows that it is notable enough even not being an american company. Eduemoni ^↑talk↓ 21:45, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep but despam - notable enough to remain, needs some despamming though. Canterbury Tail talk 21:47, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Keep per WP:DENY. Discussion related to article improvement can continue on the article's talk page as AfD is not for cleanup. --Tothwolf (talk) 08:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment With an almost guaranteed keep, I am currently working on cleaning and properly referencing the article as discussed in the opinions of editors regarding sources and improvements. :) Rmzadeh ► 01:37, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 22:55, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 22:55, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 22:55, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Spamming and not notable enough to remain. Persian language Sources not reliable. Kaaveh (talk) 04:51, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for your opinion but how are primer Scientific journals and professional news articles not reliable? in any case, here are a few more Persian sources from news channels and scientific journal articles [6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15] Rmzadeh ► 06:28, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.