Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Internet meme trolls in Kerala

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. There is general agreement that the sources provided to support this article's existence are insufficient. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 15:30, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Internet meme trolls in Kerala[edit]

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Reverted WP:PROD. The regional subject of "Internet meme trolls in Kerala" in particular does not appear to be a notable topic, and neither do any of the individual "trolling groups" mentioned. This simply isn't encyclopedic material, and is akin to writing an article called "Garage bands in Kerala" and using it as a WP:COATRACK to include WP:INDISCRIMINATE / WP:NFT material about you and your friends' non-notable bands. The fact that some minor and mostly local/regional coverage exists that mentions trolls and Kerala is about the same as minor newspapers mentioning that a live music scene exists there and mentioning some bands. This is not in-depth coverage of the quasi-broad article subject as such, nor in-depth coverage of particular trolling groups or individual trolls. It simply is not plausible that Kerala especially has a noteworthy trolling phenomenon happening, when Internet trolls are active all over the world, doing the same sorts of stuff everywhere. Even if something like that could be demonstrated about Kerala, it would only rate a sentence or two at Troll (slang)#India, not a separate articles, since there isn't anything distinctive about the trolling activity in (or regarding) Kerala.

WP:BEFORE: I Googled around for additional source material but didn't find anything better than what is already in there, though exactly how to search for something like this is bit subjective. It's possible there is some additional coverage that actually is significant, in some non-English language(s) of India, but I doubt it, and am not competent to find it. This is pretty typical of general-search results, and this of Google News results. Lots of passing mentions about someone being trolled, someones doing some trolling, some venue with a bunch of trolls. In short, it looks like coverage of Internet trolling everywhere. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 08:38, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. For the reasons outlined in the nomination. I tried to tidy up this article, dealing mainly with format, but could see that it's a non-notable topic. Regards, BoyTheKingCanDance (talk) 09:41, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Arbitrary and lacks encyclopedic value. Internet trolls are everywhere across the globe. Nothing special about Kerala to warrant an independent article. Sources are run-of-the-mill, and fails WP:INDISCRIMINATE. This also serves as a WP:PROMOTION for troll pages and trolls from Kerala, treating Wikipedia as a personal blog for local interests.--The Doom Patrol (talk) 09:49, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

FactorDaily is not "local/regional coverage", unless one counts India as "local/regional". And its article, alone, is fairly substantial. The The News Minute article is on the same two named groups, and is an additional, second, independent source. Both sources discuss specific things that are particular to their circumstances, such as what topics have caused them problems, and the Times of India piece (which is somewhat the poorer than the others, which people not used to Indian news media might not expect) then adds to that commentary on the language issues.
The real problem here is that the article writers here in the English Wikipedia cannot write English. With these sources available, gibberish like the second paragraph means that L1 English speakers will probably not appreciate what is in the sources and what the subject is. The Deccan Herald source has been completely misrepresented, for example.
Simply put:
Trolling has become a cottage industry in Kerala, exemplified by two main groups, Troll Malayalam and International Chalu Union, that have grown and become organized, with their own semi-formal moderation systems and rules of conduct, since 2015. They target mainly Indian public figures, have rules about not invading their private lives or making fun of their physical attributes, and have trolled non-Indian figures as well, sometimes resulting in figures in the Anglosphere outside of India (e.g. Mitchell Johnson) suddenly (and to their surprise) having hundreds of memes in Malayalam appearing as replies to their social media posts.
Running jokes that they employ include giving K Surendran the nickname (in Malaylam) "onion plant", and high profile trolls have included trolling Sachin Tendulkar by pretending to apologize to Maria Sharapova for having trolled her years before for saying that she didn't know who Tendulkar was, and agreeing that she has turned out to be right to do so all along. Common reactions to their trolling have been particularly strong when it comes to Modi, and a meme targetting Christianity caused an artist from Canada to try to take their FaceBook page down by falsely claiming that their logo was copyrighted by him.
There you go: A stub supportable from all four of the aforementioned sources that actually explains the subject. Now try the Google Scholar search in the advanced search box above and be surprised at the sources that are not yet in the article and the further scope for expansion that there is from people who have actually made academic studies of this. ☺
Uncle G (talk) 10:18, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I could probably construct a similar-scope stub, with similar quality sources, about the live music scene in Albuquerque, New Mexico, including various specific bands, and this won't make it an encyclopedic topic that needs a stand-alone article with coatracking of non-notable bands. Even if something can marginally pass WP:GNG (and I'm not at all sure from the above that this does) doesn't mean that we must have an article for it. When it's something trivial, of almost entirely local or regional interest, and not appreciably different from the same sort of thing everywhere else, other than some names are different, then the best option (if we cover it at all) is generally as a paragraph or maybe a section in some broader article. There are some trollings that have generated considerable press coverage, from Stephen Colbert's repeated on-TV advocacy of his audience vandalizing Wikipedia, way back in the day, to the last few years' torrent of online anger directed at J. K. Rowling (on multiple issues), but we cover these things very briefly at Stephen Colbert (character), and with barely any mention (two sentence clauses, basically) at Political views of J. K. Rowling focusing instead on reactions to her by notable people.
FactorDaily is described as "an Indian digital media publication", but that doesn't make it a reliable source (and it appears never to have been discussed at WP:RSN). It did get two awards for specific articles and was co-founded by a legit journalist, Pankaj Mishra, which are promising, but our article at FactorDaily has no other information that would help establish reputability or lack thereof, and it doesn't have a lot of coverage about it, itself. Our article at The News Minute suggests it only has a staff of 12 (only one of whom was notable, Chitra Subramaniam, who is no longer there), but it also has won awards for two articles. Also seems never to have been reviewed at RSN. But the "fairly substantial" FD article isn't on the general topic of our article, but two of the coatracked groups (TM and ICU). The NM source similarly isn't really about our topic but about Indian TV shows and satire of them and their cast members in general, with brief mention of the same two groups. This isn't sufficient. Times of India shows up a lot at RSN, and is listed as no consensus or mixed reliability at WP:RSP. Their article isn't about trolling in/from/about Kerala, and even explicitly says it is about the fact that "for a lot of Malayalis, especially outside Kerala, social media is the only means of venting their frustration" [emphasis added], particularly at various celebs, some of them Westerners. It's the only mention of Kerala in the article. It also wanders into WP:FRINGE nonsense with declarations like "Malayalis and Bengalis are a people who are genetically short tempered, irritable and argumentative". Not a pinnacle of reliablity. Nothing in these stories indicates an actual and distinctive subculture of trolling in the state; it's routine regional-flavor coverage of Internet antics that aren't identifiably different from or more prevalent than trolling everywhere.
To address the draft stub above in some specifics (and I would have AfDed that version, too): "a cottage industry in Kerala" is basically WP:OR (as is the central notion of the current poor article). There simply is not any real sourcing that something definably distinct, something unique, is happening in Kerala. This isn't appreciably different from writing about, say, the restaurant scene in a particular city. There will be coverage, and there will be claims that it's special, but no demonstration that it's special. (And that's not what cottage industry means, anyway.) "Exemplified by" is a reach; two sources mentioning the same two groups (which strongly suggests direct cannibalization of one publisher's story by the other, espcially given the length of the list of such groups [deleted since this AfD started] in our erstwhile article; seems just a bit too coincidental) doesn't demonstrate them to be exemplars of the activity of all of them. "their own semi-formal moderation systems and rules of conduct": So what? This is true of, say, just about every "Group" on Facebook, and every other subReddit, and various of the larger wikiprojects on Wikipedia, and any big software dev project on GitHub and Sourceforge, oh yeah and plenty of local bands. Engaging in the everyday human interaction and collaboration behavior of negotiating what to do and how to do it doesn't generate notability. "hundreds of memes in Malayalam appearing": If some Malayali celeb irritated a bunch of Americans, Canadians, or British, then they'd end up getting "hundreds of memes in English appearing" in their feeds that are otherwise dominated by Malayalam. Nothing encyclopedically interesting going on. Next is some random trivia; I could write the same sort of material about the memes and jokes and jibes I post on Facebook, but that wouldn't make it encyclopedically useful information (even if I were arguably notable), and if I violated someone's copyright in the process and got put in Facebook jail, that wouldn't be non-INDISCRIMINATE to include either. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 16:51, 30 November 2023 (UTC); rev'd. 03:10, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- As a postcript, I should note that I could probably double the size of the above just from the sources already in the article. But that was enough to show a stub. Plus, now I have to catch a bus, and also get back to Creeks in Kentucky to vacuum up more GNIS mess substubs before someone notices them and starts another nomination spree. ☺ Uncle G (talk) 10:55, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  Google Scholar results (you have to remove the quotation marks from around the query to get them) are articles broadly about Internet subculture, Internet trolling/memes more narrowly, or Internet culture in India more narrowly, that just happen to mention Kerala (usually in passing), because of a few online incidents there like e-protest about a particular legal case, and cyberbullying of a particular actress, plus evidence that happened to be collected there, e.g. pertaining to the Kerala assembly election in 2021, and so on, but these sources also cover similar stuff in and collect similar evidence from other places. Skimming 10 pages of such search results, I find zero sources that are particularly about a topic that could be called "Internet meme trolls in Kerala" (or the renamed title "Kerala troll community"). The header at the top of the results says "About 178 results". Kerala has a population of about 34.5 milion. Countries about the same population as Kerala state include Poland, Morocco, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Peru, Malaysia, Angola, Mozambique, and Saudi Arabia. Substituting their names into the search produces "About X results" of the following, respectively: 2,310, 459, 168, 1,760, 521, 1,170, 189, 157, 983. So, also from a statistical perspective, there appears to be nothing unusual going on in Kerala with regard to the Internet and memes and trolling. We just don't have any encyclopedic need for national much less sub-national articles on Internet memes and trolling activity in them. WP isn't a database or index of Internet subculture shenanigans, or a place to lionize them on a localized level. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 03:46, 1 December 2023 (UTC); updated for improper page rename, 05:03, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Internet and Kerala. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 11:46, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - per nom.~~ αvírαm|(tαlk) 13:45, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The article is about the community of troll memes in Kerala [1] and its happenings through trolls in India and internationally, trolls are very famous in Kerala and the Kerala troll community has had a huge impact on politics in India itself in a big way. Maria Sharapova vs Sachin Tendulkar fans trolls[2] are very viral and much talked about internationally, Sachin later spoke about it, just like Kerala vs Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi political trolls[3] have become a huge news and political debate. I am interested in keeping the article, this article will be helpful in future to learn about trolls in Indian zone Spworld2 (tαlk) 4:43, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
We already know what the article is about. That some famous people have been trolled is irrelevant; notability is not "inherited" by a non-notable subject interacting in some way with a notable one. Someone famous speaking about being trolled doesn't make trolling in/from Kerala different from any other trolling. Whether you'd like to keep the article is also irrelevant. "Will be helpful" is not a valid argument either. About your sources: The ToI piece has already been covered above. The BBC News piece never mentions Kerala (or Malayali, Malayalam), and that tiny "article" is about Indians in general. The Onmanorama source ("known for its hyperlocal coverage of Kerala") is not about trolling in/fron Kerala either. It's about "Malayalees all over the world in one accord took to social media sites" (emphasis added) to criticize Modi for bad-mouthing Kerala. This has nothing at all to do with an alleged trolling subculture in Kerala, and is precisely the same as a story that said something like "People of Indonesian descent all over the world sent angry messages to Donald Trump on Truth Social for calling Indonesia bad names." — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 17:12, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@SMcCandlish, Two incidents are mentioned here for reference, as I know Kerala area I can know more, here this article is not promoting special groups, I am not writing for money, trolls are very useful and exploiting in this decade in Kerala, India is really a democratic country. Because of that the state of Kerala holds fast to democratic values,In that, trolls are used a lot in Kerala to protest against the ruling parties when they are working against the people, sometimes trolls even change the governance reforms in Kerala, so many trolls are manifested in the daily life of the people of Kerala,This is a community where meme trolls are born, not only 10 or 100 people respond by trolling in Kerala, tens of thousands respond by trolling on various topics, the current government of Kerala has often received trolls and changed the rules of governance, Kerala is the most trolled by the Indian central government.LPG gas price hike, petrol price, fascist rule all react to Kerala community trolling and protesting Spworld2 (talk) 5:55, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

That you know something about the subject of the article is not a reason to keep it. The material might be improved by removing all the name-dropping of non-notable alleged trolling groups (only two of which were attested in reliable sources so far), but that doesn't make the idea of "Internet meme trolls in Kerala" an encyclopedically notable topic. No one accused you of writing for money, and that's just extraneous. I'm not sure what "trolls are very useful and exploiting in this decade" really means, but it doesn't seem to be a valid rationale for keeping the article. Democratic values are unrelated to whether this is a proper encyclopedia article. Internet trolls all over the world are protesting things, very commonly against people in power; this is not special to Kerala. We have no reliable-source evidence at all to support "trolls even change the governance reforms in Kerala ... changed the rules of governance" and that is an WP:EXCEPTIONAL claim requiring exceptional sources. There is no evidence of more trolls in Kerala affecting daily life than elsewhere. There is no evidence that Kerala is a special home of "troll generation". There is no evidence for your "tens of thousands" claims, but even if there was, so what? There are many more trolling posts about, say, Donald Trump, but we do not and should not have an article about trolling related to Donald Trump. "trolled by the Indian central government": there is no reliable sourcing for the idea that the government of India is itself trolling Kerala. All of the claims you are making are exceptional and highly dubious ones, without any reliable sourcing to back them up, and it simply makes clear what your blog-style, non-encyclopedic, speculative and exaggeratory intent is in developing this article further, so is an additional reason to delete it. Kerala makes up only 2.8% of India's population, and has the lowest population growth rate of any Indian state, so this figure will actually go down. It is not plausible that Kerala is a special nexus of globally notable Internet activity of any kind. It's like claiming that Peoria, Illinois, is really a unique centre of influence in hip-hop. This is nothing but regional-pride writing, and it doesn't belong on this project. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢, 😼 03:03, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As only 2.8% of India's population is in Kerala, I could read in your reply that Kerala issues should not form articles at international level, which is a very weak idea than in some European countries. Looking at the figure of 2.8%, is this not valuable? It is rare in the world to correct administrative reforms with internet meme trolls and it is happening in Kerala [4],[5]. I am not clamoring for an article for my selfishness, Kerala people are a community that has a great interest in trolls which they clearly reflect in their daily lives. From the common people of Kerala, to the Kerala Police[6],[7],Collector[8] and Ministers[9], trolls are very influential in politics [10],football elections, cinema and governance protests. This internet meme I wrote is titled Trolls in "Kerala" I am asking you whether it is possible to keep this article under a different title or to stop it by changing the subject and if you can help me how to stop this article according to Wikipedia rules. more reference : [11], [12],[13]- Spworld2 (tαlk) 10:30, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Nothing to do with whether something is "valuable" in some vague sense, and WP not needing local-interest blog-like material about Kerala is not a reflect on Kerala's "value". We don't have such material about New York City or Saudi Arabia or the entirety of Russia, either. Using the Internet to affect politics is routine, everywhere, and has been since the rise of the public Internet in the mid–late 1990s (I would know; I was one of the pioneers of doing it!). "It is happening in Kerala". Well, pretty much everything of a general sort that happens everywhere is happening in Kerala, and everthing of a general sort happening in Kerala is happening everywhere else, too. To return to my themes above, there is a restaurant industry in Kerala that is very similar to that everywhere else, there is a local music scene in cities in Kerala not unlike those in other cities around the world, and Internet trolling is a thing there, just as it is everwhere. Let's look at these sources, in the order you provided them:

The ham-fisted government of Kerala goes after 138 people for "defaming" various government figures. That the alleged defamation happened via the Internet is not actually interesting, since everything is online these days. The does nothing to establish that "meme trolling" in Kerala is more prevalant than anywhere else or different in character from anywhere else (it just demonstrates that Kerala has a jerk of prosecutor who has no respect for the idea of people in a democracy freely expressing displeasure with governmental representatives). This might well be worth a mention at Kerala somewhere under "Government" or "Politics" as a governmental over-reach thing, not as an Internet thing in particular.
IRA appears to be an unreliable, disreputable publisher [14]. Taking this item at face value, it is a college paper written in badly broken English, and cites only one source (broken citation) that is just some interview with a non-notable person anyway. It claims that Internet and social media are important in Kerala (true of everywhere); has a lot of general information about what trolling is and does, everywhere (primarily satire and annoyance of parties believed to deserve it); and says its gist is "trolls and its [sic] importance to the cyber world of Kerala". Well, trolls are important in the "cyber world" (nice 1997 'Net-speak there) of everywhere, but this does nothing to establish that trolling is important especially in Kerala in a general way, or is somehow different there.
(Un-paywalled here) Kerala police on their official "social media page" (service unspecified) posted a video of someone verbally abusing someone else and criticizing the police. The apparent point was to use it as an example of bad behavior in some kind of public education campaign. Lawyer claimed it violated Kerala Police Act privacy protections, and a police bureaucrat said it had been taken offline and wouldn't happen again. This has nothing to do with our topic. It mentions the word "trolling", but confusingly uses it to mean the police posting a video of a suspect, not the public trolling the police. It's just completely irrelevant.
Memes and angry posts about the state police and one of its bureacrats were ridiculing and critical, and a few "went viral" locally. This happens everywhere. Half my Facebook feed is full of political venting of this sort (most of the rest being cat pictures). Anyway, it had no effect other than annoying some bureaucrats, and no action was taken, since none of it was illegal.
An Indian Administrative Service officer posted on Facebook that fans of the German association football team in the FIFA World Cup 2018 would probably be removing their fan signs from the area after their team lost. Yep, that's the entire "story". This is yet another case of "troll" being applied to a government figure posting something online, and nothing to do with any alleged trolling subculture in Kerala.
In the exact same vein. Another Kerala bureaucrat was criticized by a few people for mentioning a phrase from a left-wing meme in a Facebook announcement about a highway flyover's construction. His post was also said to have "gone viral", but this time with an actual figure: shared 650 times, which for a public figure is basically nothing. He was said to be "trolling" right-wing misogynists from RSS/BJP. But as usual this does absolutely nothing to establish the idea of a notable subculture of trolling in Kerala that isn't the same as trolling everywhere much less connected to various "trolling groups".
Trolling, often political, is happening in Kerala. (Same as everywhere.) Then there's lots of general info about trolling, which has nothing to do with Kerala in particular. Leaders of political parties have been trolled (same as everywhere). Brief mention/quoting of the same two trolling groups mentioned in a source in previous posts above (or maybe this is the same source). Complaints about the left-leaning government of the state arresting trollers (doesn't specify exactly what for). Political opponent sides with the trollers, and says the party in power is abusing that power against freedom of expression. Like the first source, this is potentially useful material on political over-reach and suppression to use at the article Kerala, under "Politics" or "Government", but it does not even hint that trolling as an activity in Kerala is something unusual and noteworthy. Rather, government bureaucrats cracking down on people criticizing them is the entire story. That the crticism is online is simply a fact of the times, and nothing to do with Kerala in particular. And "trolls are very influential in politics" is not demonstrated by this, as a statement about Kerala (by any of these sources).
JSTOR article, finally something not completely trivial. Got access to full text through WP:TWL. I read this in detail, and it is about political figures getting online and using social media more and more, and relying on supporters to engage in online argument on the candidate's behalf. It likes to call them "trollers", but there is nothing in here about a special trolling subculture in Kerala. It is simply documenting that politicians in Kerala are bleatedly doing what politicians everywhere are doing (including slick ad campaigns and other methods they weren't bothering with before, not just social media stuff), and the reason is because their consituencies have gotten much more media-savvy over the last few years. The Internet is giving them also a new reach to the Malayali (or Malayalee if you prefer) disaspora. They're also learning that old media (like TV recordings of them making campaign promises they did not keep) can come back to haunt them. Article closes wondering whether this stuff is good for democracy or just a bunch of noisy polemics. Kerala was the focus of this piece not because something unique is happening in Kerala, like an unusual subculture of trolling, but because Kerala has been very slow to catch up. At any rate, it does not support the retention of this article.
An opinion piece that is simply tracking Twitter trends that pertain to Malayalis, noting politicians using social media to attack each other, and also mentioning the use of Twitter and other platforms by the public to vent their frustrations at various public figures, and goofing off with hashtags just for the fun of it. As with the JSTOR piece, this is just evidence of social media use in Kerala catching up with everwhere else. There's nothing noteworthy about this material.
Irrelevant. Says two Indian bureaucrats got trolled on social media (happens everywhere), and has no connection to Kerala other than that one of the targets speaks Malayalam. Notably says: "Then there were the usual troll posts modelled on hit film dialogues ...", i.e. it is conciously aware that trolling is just a general Internet thing and comes in thematic variants.

To address a couple of other comments: "This internet meme I wrote ...", yes it's clear that you are deeply involved in this stuff, and are trying to write about stuff of local interest to which you are closely connected. See WP:NFT. "[is it] possible to keep this article under a different title or to stop [deletion] by changing the subject": Not likely. The title is poor, but has nothing to do with a deletion action; if kept, it would probably be renamed through WP:RM process. If you changed the subject (to what?) then it would need to be in a different article. But if you go off and write "Social media in Kerala" or "Malayali Internet memes" or other claptrap about essentially the same topic, it will just be brought up for deletion again, because your idea of taking a random topic like "memes and trolling on social media" and intersecting it with "Kerala" or "Malayalis" does not produce any kind of encyclopedic topic to write about. We don't have articles like this about Botswana or Texas or Aberdeenshire or Beijing, either.

So, after all of this I still have to conclude that absolutely nothing is going on with this erstwhile article other than "regional pride" writing, trying to make it seem like something magically special is happening in Kerala, when it is the same stuff as everywhere else, maybe just a bit late out of the gate. This is precisely the same as misusing local and regional news coverage of local music performances or restaurants to try to gin up a perception of a notable and distinctive music or cuisine subculture of great importance in a particular city, when in reality nothing special is going on whatsoever. This is not the right site for writing that is anything like this. You need to start a blog or a Facebook group or something like that. See also WP:NOT#BLOG and WP:NOT#SOCIAL. This is an encyclopedia for topics of global interest. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 13:00, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article has been further developed to make it Keep WP:KEEP for WP:NRVE, added more references, and changed the title to Kerala Troll Community ( it may be against Wikipedia policy, some have given notice for this - this Due to lack of knowledge about the policy or carelessness) Kerala Troll Community consists of trollers[15], meme makers[16] and Kerala cartoonists[17], Kerala Sarcasm Producers This section may also be called[18] - Spworld2 (tαlk) 5:56, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Let's cover these sources too, then, in the order in which you've given them: 1) Basically says that Kerala is belatedly catching up to the idea of Internet memes (we already knew that from the above), and that ones from Kerala reflect local humour (true of memes everywhere), and that experienced trollers in the area have a good sense of what works as a meme (true of trollers everywhere). 2) Profile of someone and her feminist memes page with "more than 11,000 followers" which is basically nothing. That she happens to be in Kerala is incidental (she has to be somewhere). This is no different from, say, a profile of a local chef or guitarist. 3) Not relevant. That Kerala might produce more cartoonists than average is an interesting factoid, but unrelated to the subject of the article exept in the most peripheral way. And note that we do not have an article at "Cartooning in Kerala" or "Cartoons in Kerala" or "Animation in Kerala" or anything like that. No topic of that sort is notable. We have articles like Anime (= Animation in Japan) and American animation and even History of French animation, about entire industries and "schools" of cartoon/animation style at the nation level, but not about cartoon/animation (or internet!) activity in particular US states or departements of France or prefectures of Japan. 4) Not relevant; it's about humour and comedy in Kerala, and is just like an article about the comedy scene in Santa Barbara or in Hong Kong, and we don't have articles about things like that. We do have articles on national-level comedy as a distinctive variety and quasi-industry, e.g. British comedy, Canadian humour, Chinese comedy, etc., but they are not subnationally divided. Anyway, this 4th citation makes no mention of the Internet, memes, or trolling, other that to cross-reference someone's one-off tweet.

As with the above material, there is no evidence of something you now want to title "Kerala troll community". There is no evidence that there is any such "community", any more than there is a "community" of this activity everywhere else. There is no evidence that trolling and memes and other Internet activities are different in Kerala than anywhere else; they are simply covered by media in Kerala in a Kerala-specific way, the same as newspapers in Idaho in the US or Sumatra province in Indonesia will focus on local people and events in coverage of internet-related goings-on in those places. There is not only no evidence that Internet memes and trolling are more developed in Kerala in some way than anywhere else, there is very strong evidence (in the previous round of this source analysis) that they are a recent phenomenon there, slowly catching up with the rest of the world including more tech-savvy states of India. The material you want to write belongs on a blog or social media site, and non-encyclopedic material exactly like it could be written about memes and trolling in just about any other well-populated (and not technologically deprived) subnational jurisdiction on the planet. What you are trying to do is very clear: You are gathering isolated, unconnected press mentions of anything to do with Internet memes, trolling (under conflicting definitions of that term), the Internet at all, and humor or comedy, that have any connection to Kerala, and trying to synthesize this into a story of Kerala as a unique environment of online satire worth global attention. This is pure original research and an opinion editorial, not an encyclopedia article. Nothing like it belongs on this site. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 11:07, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kerala troll community is an independent community that participates in troll activity from different places in kerala and at different times every day, the purpose is the same, it is created according to the event of politics[19], entertainment and sports, it is childish to avoid it by saying that there is no proof. There will be many people in the world who believe in Gods. Some Gods we cannot see in their belief. They look at what is written and history, they create articles, they don't see them because there is no proof. Many news links from trusted sources are included here and in the article reference, some may be of related topic and may be related to the article [20] Newly added reference links related to the article are posted here and hopefully the article can be kept in this section if it can comply with the notability policy WP:KEEP for WP:NRVE.Spworld2 (tαlk) 4:45 , 4 December 2023 (UTC)

And here we go again. Review of these sources in the same order: A) (Accessed via WP:TWL.) We've already been over this source, above. It says that instead of just doing things like having street-corner rallies and handing out flyers, politicians in Kerala are finally catching up to using social media and the Internet. Also has a lot to do with one new political party and their coverage by TV and print news media. This does nothing to establish a distinct Internet-using community/subculture in Kerala. B) This is a suppositional and politicized opinion piece about troller psychology written by a non-psychologist (a controversial retired police bureaucrat) and has no connection to Kerala at all other than the writer happens to be from there. P.S.: WP:KEEP does not apply to this (there is no speedy keep criterion this qualifies for), and it's already explained to you below how this fails NRVE. Simply repeating the same thing over and over again is not a valid argument. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 04:55, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - POV fork. Kinopiko ^talk 20:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Do you mean a WP:POVFORK from Troll (slang)#India, or is there another article we need to look at? — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 03:04, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article has been further developed to make it Keep WP:KEEP for WP:NRVE- Spworld2 (tαlk) 5:55, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
The detailed analysis I've done on the sources you've provided demonstrates that this completely fails NRVE. All any of it proves is that trolling and memes happen in Kerala, which everyone already knew, and which doesn't constitute an encyclopedia topic. To quote NRVE: "the evidence must show the topic has gained significant independent coverage or recognition". The topic of this article is an alleged distinctive subculture/community of Internet trolling and memes that is particular to Kerala, but there is no evidence for this, only for the the same Internet satire activity there (and belated at that) as is found all over the world. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 11:19, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The article has moved to Kerala troll community during the AfD discussion. Certes (talk) 11:46, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
it may be against Wikipedia policy, some have given notice for this and this Due to lack of knowledge about the policy or carelessness Spworld2 (tαlk) 5:56, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
Delete, per SMcCandlish's exceedingly patient and exhaustive analyses of the sources. JoelleJay (talk) 01:24, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
i think that this article should be deleted. This isnt even a relevant subject???Lolitszenitsu (talk) 15:37, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Adding a reference from some verified source that is not of local interest to keep the article status This may be included in the above discussion, or an advertisement on an independent topic as stated in the category WP:SIGCOV by a valid reference from a verified source. WP:NRV (WP:NRVE) may consider promotional web links or non-verified sources. Verifiable objective evidence that the subject matter has received substantial attention from independent sources may be accepted to support a claim of notability, there is a lot of evidence that there is such a community in Kerala, another way of thinking is that there is no similar fact in other countries in the world, some discussion members are asking above, there is, but we do not see such a big troll meme impact as a day-to-day activity or democratic protests against the government like in Kerala. But it has a big political impact in Kerala, it even affects the central government of India, and the ruling party is losing big in elections in Kerala, creating a troll meme (troll community). Many things going on in Indian nationalism are discussed by trolls, it is very childish to ignore such a popular article as nothing, this article should be kept for further discussion from Kerala area, every time adding the above sources or new references.[21], [22][23],[24],[25],[26],[27],[28], trolls are very influential in politics in Kerala [29],[30],here,[31],[32],[33], [34],[35] - Spworld2 (tαlk) 3:00, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
reference -
BOOKS📖 [36][37][38],[39][40]

JSTOR⚜️ [41], [42]

DOC📄 [43][44] [45] [46]

📺📰🌐 [47][48][49], [50][51][52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57][58][59][60][61]
Spworld2 (tαlk) 4:38, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
I'm sure no one wants to see me fill up several more screenfulls (screensful?) of analysis of this stuff, and I do have a life. Most of these links are just copy-pastes of material already examined above in detail, many of the rest are not reliable sources, more are simply off-topic (about humour and movies and etc.), and what remains are exactly like all the others above: they demonstrate that people in Kerala are (belatedly) getting on board with the Internet and social media, and they use them for the same things and in the same ways (including trolling and memes) as everyone everywhere else in the world (who have regular Internet access). You can dump 100 more "sources" like these here, and the result is going to be the same: they do not demonstrate that Kerala has a uniquely notable, distinct, important, or influential social-media environment, much less anything even vaguely like a special community or subculture of trolling. Let me put it this way: even if you have 10,000 sources that say that cats breathe and eat and poop and die, it does not prove that you have a magical flying cat. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 12:32, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Objection from my side is over, I offer you a Arctic Ale by Allsopp beer🍺 for properly postmorteming this for so many days 🤝 - - Spworld2 (tαlk) 01:38, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: per the through analysis of references done by SMcCandlish. Owen× ☎ 20:01, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Politics of Kerala or any related article to Kerala because judging by arguments of both Spworld2 and SMcCandlish, it seems there is some significance within India. Freinland (talk) 08:04, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It would be better to rename it as "Social Media Politics in Kerala"--- Spworld2 (tαlk) 01:43, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, I find SMcCandlish's review of the sourcing to be the most persuasive and accurate of the above contributions and agree with them on that basis that the article shouldn't be retained. Daniel (talk) 10:25, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.