Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Indians-White Sox rivalry
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. The policy based opinions, WP:OR/WP:SYNTH and not meeting WP:GNG, are decidedly not for keeping. A merge was considered but as AdventurousSquirrel pointed out it would only be appropriate if reliable sources could be found. The only sources found were by Muboshgu and fell short of defining this as a rivalry. J04n(talk page) 12:28, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Indians-White Sox rivalry (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Fails WP:GNG. Two teams in a sports league. Is there a rivalry or just a history of playing one another annually. Whether two teams are rivals are a POV.
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. ...William 21:51, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. ...William 21:51, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. ...William 21:51, 16 February 2013 (UTC) ...William 21:51, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete/merge to Major League Baseball rivalries where appropriate, if reliable sources can be found to back up what's in the article. AdventurousSquirrel (talk) 22:31, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- (edit conflict) Delete I do not for the life of me understand the desire of some to create "rivalry" articles for obscure matchups. Yeah, they're in the same division, but that doesn't necessarily make them "rivals". That should be a high bar to clear, like NYY-BOS, LAD-SFG, and a few others. As for this one, a Google News archive search will of course find some hits for "indians white sox rivalry", since the two teams have been around for so long. But, one of the first hits to come up says things like they "may have" developed a rivalry, and that was 1994, and another questions whether or not there is one, and that's from 2003. I'm not convinced that any amount of sourcing would suffice to save this article from WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:34, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep This rivalry has 10 1/2 finishes as well several other competitive seasons, 5 no hitters the 1994 corked bat incident, shoeless joe also played for the Indians so it is a competitive rivalry with history — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clecol99 (talk • contribs) 22:38, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'll agree with you on your comment on the lakefront cities which is a moot point in this rivalry but they have 10 1/2 finishes which makes for a competitive rivalry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.187.63.104 (talk) 22:55, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - These two teams have enough history that I'll leave it for the baseball historians as to whether a truly historic rivalry has existed between these franchises. I'm dubious. Carrite (talk) 23:12, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Not significant. There is virtually no history between these teams.Ultimahero (talk) 19:42, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
did you even read the article?.And define your definition of history, what do you mean? by what happenend in the games between the two teams? or 1/2 finishes.Im lost— Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.187.63.104 (talk) 20:26, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes. The article mentions the years 1906-1908 but it's pointless because nothing happens. There are two close years in 1919 and 1920, then nothing for thirty years. The White Sox stunk it up during that stretch. Both were better in the 50's but were largely irrelevant to each other since the Yankees dominated that era (winning eight pennants during the decade.) The lone exception during the 50's where Cleveland and Chicago were relevant was 1959. After that Cleveland stunk up the 60's and then in 1969 they were placed in separate divisions which only served to push them even farther apart. So, from 1906 to 1993, we're looking at three close years. That's all. I think I'm justified in saying there is virtually no history there. Things get a little better from 1994 onward since they're in the same division but even then there's only four close seasons: 1994, 1997, 2000. 2005. It's just not enough to be called a rivalry.Ultimahero (talk) 20:47, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. The article reads like a separate history of the two teams. The word rival or rivalry isn't used one single time. Lastly some seem to think a rivalry is only present if two teams are any good. Anyone familiar with college football knows that isn't necessarily true. Still in this case, we have two sources(that don't say rival or rivalry either) that two teams exist but nothing more....William 11:12, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes. The article mentions the years 1906-1908 but it's pointless because nothing happens. There are two close years in 1919 and 1920, then nothing for thirty years. The White Sox stunk it up during that stretch. Both were better in the 50's but were largely irrelevant to each other since the Yankees dominated that era (winning eight pennants during the decade.) The lone exception during the 50's where Cleveland and Chicago were relevant was 1959. After that Cleveland stunk up the 60's and then in 1969 they were placed in separate divisions which only served to push them even farther apart. So, from 1906 to 1993, we're looking at three close years. That's all. I think I'm justified in saying there is virtually no history there. Things get a little better from 1994 onward since they're in the same division but even then there's only four close seasons: 1994, 1997, 2000. 2005. It's just not enough to be called a rivalry.Ultimahero (talk) 20:47, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.