Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hans-Martin Trepp

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. ✗plicit 13:33, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hans-Martin Trepp

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I prodded this article on the basis that it was sourced only to a database. Creator deprodded and added another source... which was another database. My interpretation of WP:NOTDIR is that Wikipedia is not a comprehensive directory of Olympians. I feel that articles should have secondary sources, not just databases. —S Marshall T/C 09:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Olympics-related deletion discussions. —S Marshall T/C 09:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Ice hockey, and Switzerland. Shellwood (talk) 09:44, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, my interpretation of the criteria is that something should not have an article solely because the topic is in some kind of a directory. The athlete in question is a winner of an Olympic medal and has other notable achievements. Obviously, most sources would likely be on paper but since the two websites are reliable sources, that should not pose a problem. --Tone 09:47, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep According to WP:NHOCKEY, being on a world championship team is enough to meet notability requirements. He played for the Swiss national team at the world championship 4 times, won a gold medal at the European championship according to this site. He is also mentioned in the book Lion in Winter: A Complete Record of Great Britain at the Olympic, World and European Ice Hockey Championships 1910 - 1981 by David S Gordon and Martin C Harris on pages 290-291. That book, as well as his career statistics, which appear to have been above average if not exceptional, could be used to expand the article. Chagropango (talk) 13:40, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Chagropango. Reading his bio suggests quite a lengthy and notable hockey career, even if you discount his Olympic appearence. Multiple national titles, European medals, matches and goals. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 14:45, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, per above. Additionally, Trepp was named the greatest centre in Swiss history. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:49, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well, four "keep" !votes and we've got two new sources: Olympedia, yet another nonselective sports database, and pp290-291 of ISBN 9781527247475 --- an ebook published by Lulu.com (i.e. self-published: they're on WP:SPSLIST).—S Marshall T/C 17:21, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Still, the question is not whether the databases are selective or notselective, the question is whether they are reliable sources. As demonstrated, the subject meets the notability standards and therefore just needs reliable sources. Tone 21:20, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry to disagree with you again, Tone, but when you say "this subject meets the notability standards", I don't think that's actually the case. The notability standard requires reliable sources, plural, and I think this content only has one. To a superficial glance it might look like three, but let's actually drill down and look at them:

Olympedia.com: "Hans-Martin Trepp was a forward who played for EHC Arosa from 1946-59, winning seven consecutive Swiss titles with that side from 1951-57. He played for Switzerland at the World Championships four times, winning three bronze medals in 1950-51 and 1953. He also added six medals at the European Championships, winning gold in 1950, silver in 1951, and bronzes in 1947, 1949, and 1952-53. Statistics are not complete but Trepp was a prolific scorer for Arosa, with 128 goals and 161 points in the last four years of his career in only 49 games. He scored 43 goals in his 39 games at the Olympics and Worlds."
Sports-reference.com: "Hans-Martin Trepp was a forward who played for EHC Arosa from 1946-59, winning seven consecutive Swiss titles with that side from 1951-57. He played for Switzerland at the World Championships four times, winning three bronze medals in 1950-51 and 1953. He also added six medals at the European Championships, winning gold in 1950, silver in 1951, and bronzes in 1947, 1949, and 1952-53. Statistics are not complete but Trepp was a prolific scorer for Arosa, with 128 goals and 161 points in the last four years of his career in only 49 games. He scored 43 goals in his 39 games at the Olympics and Worlds."
Olympics.com: "Hans-Martin Trepp was a forward who played for EHC Arosa from 1946-59, winning seven consecutive Swiss titles with that side from 1951-57. He played for Switzerland at the World Championships four times, winning three bronze medals in 1950-51 and 1953. He also added six medals at the European Championships, winning gold in 1950, silver in 1951, and bronzes in 1947, 1949, and 1952-53. Statistics are not complete but Trepp was a prolific scorer for Arosa, with 128 goals and 161 points in the last four years of his career in only 49 games. He scored 43 goals in his 39 games at the Olympics and Worlds."

All three sites claim copyright, but looking at their copyright pages I think their data is actually compiled by the OlyMADmen, who are the people whose names are listed here. In other words, I'm afraid we aren't looking at three separate sources. We're looking at three copies of one source.—S Marshall T/C 21:58, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy keep. If we are nominating the greatest players of all time, then things are getting ridiculous. The system is broken. St Anselm (talk) 08:59, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Meets WP:NHOCKEY, per all above. Ejgreen77 (talk) 10:51, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Passes WP:GNG with significant sources such as these[1][2]. Prior to looking for sources, my WP:COMMONSENSE just screamed that there was every indication that this 50's era individual from a non-english speaking country where Ice Hockey is massively popular was notable as he was one of the best players of one of the best national teams of his era. Even 16-years after his death, the Calgary Herald stated "Bibi Torrianai and Hans-Martin Trepp are still houshold names in European hockey." Alvaldi (talk) 14:04, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Those "significant sources" do look quite a lot like WP:MILL coverage in the back pages of German local newspapers to me.—S Marshall T/C 01:25, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
WP:MILL is an essay and has no power here. BeanieFan11 (talk) 02:16, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per NHOCKEY. Rlendog (talk) 21:07, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.