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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 11:32, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

HORSE the band[edit]

There are several problems with this article. Firstly, except for the History and Discography section, it contains no substantial content whatsoever; the majority of the article is what some editors would call bandcruft or fancruft. The History section itself is unreferenced (as is the entire article), and there is no evidence per WP:MUSIC (citation of reliable, third-party sources) that the band meets any of the inclusion criteria. Delete per WP:MUSIC. Zunaid©Please rate me at Editor Review! 11:04, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: This Google search brings up the official sites, Wikipedia, YouTube, lyrics websites and blogs, but no THIRD PARTY RELIABLE SOURCES confirming the band's national tour. Without this bit of evidence, the article summarily fails to satisfy, and is incapable of satisfying, WP:MUSIC. Zunaid©Please rate me at Editor Review! 14:49, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: should this article be deleted, the "sub-articles" (albums, etc.) should too be deleted. Zunaid©Please rate me at Editor Review!
  • Speedy Keep Under that reasoning nearly all band articles I've seen on Wiki would be deleted - this page is perfectly fine and follows the rules - this band are notable and are not obscure. This page simply needs some work and encouragement - not just to be deleted. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sharonlees (talk • contribs) 13:17, 30 October 2006.
    • Comment: As an editor who has never heard of the band before, I made this nom in good faith. If "nearly all band articles" would be deleted under this logic, then it a reflection on the quality of the articles, not on the validity of the nomination. The page is not "perfectly fine" and does not "follow the rules" as you claim; notability needs to be proven to the satisfaction of WP:MUSIC, which this clearly doesn't. I'm not trying to WP:POINT, but AfD was designed to run for five days precisely to give people time to "work and encourage" articles along if there were problems that could be fixed without resorting to deletion. Zunaid©Please rate me at Editor Review! 11:39, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • It is also the case that there is more than one tool in the toolbox. Your rationale for deletion is not that the article doesn't show that the WP:MUSIC criteria are satisfied, but that the parts of the article that do show that the WP:MUSIC criteria are satisfied (the history and discography) are unsourced. The tag for that is {{unreferenced}}, not {{afd1}}. Only come to AFD if no sources are to be found. Uncle G 13:01, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • Fair enough, but the burden of proof lies on the editor making the claim, not on the one seeking to remove it. Anyone can write an article and insert questionable claims, the fact is still, there is no evidence to suggest that any of these claims is in fact true. A Google search backs me up on this (unless I've seriously misread the results). If the evidence exists, it should be a trivial matter of finding it and quoting it in the article. Zunaid©Please rate me at Editor Review! 14:49, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
          • As, indeed, it is. The AllMusic Guide hyperlink, already in the article when you nominated it for deletion, is your friend. The results that you missed, moreover, were this, this, this, this, this and several others. Uncle G 16:19, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, meets WP:MUSIC. Punkmorten 12:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: Can you please motivate WHY it meets WP:MUSIC? As I've mentioned in the nomination, IMHO the article does NOT meet WP:MUSIC. Clearly only one of us is right. Remember that AfD is a discussion for concensus, not a vote, thus clarifying your comment will support your argument better. Zunaid©Please rate me at Editor Review! 14:49, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: I'm not making a personal attack by disagreeing - its just me exerting my freedom of speech and the right to a different opinion. I just think its a valid point that deletion should always be a last option and that this article has not for example broken copyright laws, and is not full of slanderous or blantantly untrue comments. And yes it is sad that the quality of articles on less well known bands tend to be fairly poor. Hopefully this nomination will mean people will try to build upon and improve what is already here --Sharonlees 12:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Please elaborate on how/why this does meet WP:MUSIC. I'm not sure it does. The Allmusic link helps establish that it's not satire, but the band does not appear to have been on a national tour (as documented in notable and verifiable sources) or have released an album on one of the more important indie labels. If kept, the article needs to establish notability and cite sources throughout. Also, the page needs to be moved to Horse the Band per this. --Alcuin 14:21, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Not being a huge fan this is hard - but they have done a nation wide tour (I believe) - it is documented - somwhat unconventionally on their site. They also have major releases they can easily be found on amazon etc and are called R Borlax and The Mechanical Hand. Hopefully an actual fan can add more to this. --Sharonlees 15:28, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep Band has multiple releases incl. an album on Combat Records, a major imprint. That said, the article is pretty poor. Auto movil 16:01, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
WP:MUSIC requires multiple albums on a major indie label. Also, the article claims their most recent album was released on Combat, but allmusic does not. --Alcuin 16:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Combat is an imprint of Koch Records. The band also satisfies other requirements of WP:Music, incl. national tour and having been featured in reputable media. Auto movil 18:26, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Most recent releases are on Koch Records, a major indie label thus satisfying WP:MUSIC. Still this article needs much work. --Alcuin 16:25, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and tidy per all above. Jcuk 23:11, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep on Combat Records who has a notable roster. Also has toured the United States. T REXspeak 00:14, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy Keep Notable band. I've met quite a few random people who know about them. I also saw them live with Dragonforce. KEEP!!!!! AshTM 01:53, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy Keep Awesome band. They're so funny and cool. Their keyboard player looks AND TALKS just like Napoleon Dynamite! The only hardcore band I like. I too have seen them live, incidentally WITH AshTM. They were touring with DragonForce and All That Remains. They were the first band playing. Is that enough proof you need? BEST HARDCORE/NINTENDOCORE BAND EVER!!!!!!!!!!! ForestAngel 02:24, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep - HORSE the band as an article needs work, but it is notable - not only for being at the forefront of nintendocore, but also for its song "cutsman", which is one of the most ridiculous pieces of music i've personally ever heard and has developed some following becuase of its campy nature. - Sam 07:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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