Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gray Death Legion

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus with complexities—The present form of WP:FICT is under dispute; however, WP:VERIFY is not. The main article nominated (Gray Death Legion) and one of the secondaries (Wolf's Dragoons) tentatively pass the Verifiability test for the existence of the concepts and for a kernal of the content. Both likely have significant WP:OR content and I will tag them as needing cleanup along that line. The other two articles of this bundle do not pass the Verifiability test. I will close as no consensus the two articles with references, tagging them for cleanup to remove original research. I will re-list the other two articles separately to allow consideration of their fate anew. (Please be considerate and contact my talk page before taking a trip to WP:DRV if you believe this closure violates policy in some manner.) --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 17:34, 17 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gray Death Legion

This article covers a fictional mercenary organization with no out-of-universe information and no real-world notability. It does not satisfy Wikipedia:Notability (fiction). I am also nominating the following articles for the same reason:

Pagra shtak 21:40, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all - Unless there is or can be established through reliable sourcing. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 20:03, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Mercenaries_(BattleTech) Nezu Chiza (talk) 22:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Notable major faction, if fictional. Not different from, let's say, Romulans of Star Trek. Also, multiplie nominations are invalid; please start separate discussion for the Kell Houns and Wolf's Dragoons.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 21:33, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Article's subject is the main focus of 7 novels. Edward321 (talk) 23:53, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

~~I don't think they were the main subject of 76. Main of 5, and mentioned in most of the others... but still,~~ Since this is a bundled nomination, I first thought of GDL. With Kell Hounds and particularly the Wolf Dragoons, the number indeed raises significantly, although I'd cap it at subject of 30 or so. In either case, main subject of several novels is rather notable. And of course gaming books and games add to that.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 00:52, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Notability is not inherited. Wikipedia:Notability states "A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." The novels are not independent sources, and do not indicate notability. These articles need sections about critical reception, concept and creation, cultural impact, merchandising, etc. That is to say, out-of-universe information. Without out-of-universe information and reliable secondary sources, the articles do not assert notability. Pagra shtak 01:00, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I did a quick search on yahoo for gray death legion and received over 2 million results. None of them reliable secondary sources but I do believe it is some indication of notability. Showers (talk) 05:50, 17 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Important part of major series. 08:38, 16 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hobit (talk • contribs)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.