Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gracie Barra Montreal (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Article has been speedily deleted by De728631 under speedy deletion criterion G4. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 17:43, 16 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Gracie Barra Montreal

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Non-notable dojo. Founder is barely notable on his own. Instructor list is also a bunch of non-notables. GSP's presence is barely tertiary information. This should not even be a redirect as it's wholly non-notable. This was deleted at least once, and should have stayed that way D P 19:53, 15 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello DangerousPanda,

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to answer the concerns and issues raised about the page "Gracie Barra Montreal". I really appreciate this dialogue.

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Answers to issues raised

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Issue 1: "Non-notable dojo."

Reply 1: The term "Martial art school" is more appropriate for this facility. By looking very closely at the sentences at the end of the lead section, you will noticed a number of sports achievements (see also Awards section) of this school that has been covered in magazines, newspapers and blogs. The school has been approved and is recognized in the most prestigious International Brazilian Jiu-jitsu Federation (see references on the page). Very specially, the school has been featured in one the Montreal leading TV news programs called "Le Téléjournal". Bruno, the head instructor and the school appeared clearly (interview) and are mentioned explicitly in the program. Please take a look at the YouTube video (record of the TV program in French) referenced in that lead section of the page.

Issue 2: "Founder is barely notable on his own."

Reply 2: Bruno F. Fernandes is indeed a notable Martial artist, a physician (ophthalmologist), 4 times Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu World champion with several other Gold medals in international competitions (ex. 2013 Australian championships). I wonder if there is any other Martial artist in Quebec, Canada who has received as many awards and distinction as Bruno F. Fernandes. This is cleared evidenced in this bio. Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_F._Fernandes

Issue 3: "Instructor list is also a bunch of non-notables."

Reply 3: Please look very closely at the reliable and independent references related to the achievements of these instructors.

In adddition to Bruno, I have very cleary and distinctively mentionned and justified (internal links, solid references) the recognized credentials of the others. For example among others: Olivier Aubin-Mercier is a rising MMA star,[2][19] member of the Ultimate Fighter show who featured in the The Ultimate Fighter Nations: Canada vs. Australia.[20]

Issue 4: "GSP's presence is barely tertiary information."

Reply 4: No, Sir. I have mentioned clearly with supporting references the following: GSP who all UFC and MMA amateurs appreciate so much has trained and received his Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ) black belt in this school from the hands of Bruno F. Fernandes himself. GSP himself seems to have given credit in his performances to his practice of BJJ. This has been mentioned very clearly in the Le Téléjournal program in the YouTube video. Please take a second look at the video in the references(sorry it is in French).

Issue 5: "This should not even be a redirect as it's wholly non-notable."

Reply 5: After the previous answers, I am confident that you have a better picture of the content of this page and the players mentioned. I am sure this whole story is a simple misunderstanding. Upon creation, the Gracie Barra page has been reviewed and approved by another administrator named PRehse who happens to be a Martial artist himself. Please take a look at his credentials here: : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PRehse

Issue 6: "This was deleted at least once, and should have stayed that way"

Reply 6: I sincerely hope this page is restored after all the detailed explanation I gave. Indeed, the firt version of the page was deleted for good reason: that author knew little about Wikipedia rules. Then, I took matters into my hands and crafted a whole new content from scratch. During this process, I took great care in reading and addressing all the issues that were raised by admnistrators in the deletion log of the first version. This way, I made sure there was no repeated mistake.

Conclusion

__________

I am pleased to have been given the opportunity to clarify certains points and defend the Gracie Barra Montreal page. I sincerely hope all the time and effort I put into this creation will be rewarded and the page immediately restored. I am ready to keep on improving the page should you have any other legitimate remark.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Best regards.

M. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mamadoutadioukone (talk • contribs) 21:07, 15 March 2014‎ (UTC)[reply]

Nope. Still doesn't. It's pure WP:SPAM. Still is. Always has been. I'd bet you have WP:COI as well D P 16:06, 16 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Quebec-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:29, 16 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:29, 16 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:29, 16 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Um, people, this article was deleted at Afd just three days ago. It should be speedily deleted as a repost and salted too, to avoid any more of this. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:03, 16 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently it was considered to be "different enough" to the original when it was reposted. That's discussion was already had D P 16:06, 16 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I did not as stated above review and approve the article. As usual I just made sure that the article was properly integrated so that it would not fall off the radar. Still the founder Bruno_F._Fernandes has his own article and his notability has nothing to do with his school/dojo/club which for an independent article must stand on its own merits. There are several good examples of this for MMA fighters that have their own schools - some are notable most are not. I am reserving my vote because there are significant changes from the last deleted article and I want to explore the references but I think the original AfD got it right.Peter Rehse (talk) 17:12, 16 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Thank you for your comment. I would like to understand this statement: "Still the founder Bruno_F._Fernandes has his own article and his notability has nothing to do with his school/dojo/club which for an independent article must stand on its own merits." In the issues raised, the person who deleted the article seems to imply the opposite as one the issues: Issue 2: "Founder is barely notable on his own." That is to say, he is linking the two as an issue. Thank you.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.