Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gjekë Marinaj

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Withdrawn by nominator (non-admin closure). — Mr. Stradivarius ^♫ 23:22, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gjekë Marinaj

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I can't find any reliable sources that cover Mr. Marinaj in any depth, so I think he fails Wikipedia's notability guidelines for biographies. I see that he has two awards to his credit, but I couldn't find any information about these awards from independent sources either, so I don't think they count as being "well-known and significant" per the guideline. — Mr. Stradivarius ^♫ 19:40, 13 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as not notable for English Wikipedia, though the Albanian Wikipedia might consider him notable. Collect (talk) 20:05, 13 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete 0 (no) hits on Google News, a notable writer would have plenty of Google News hits. No credible sources that consider him notable. 87.236.90.41 (talk) 22:15, 13 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. No sources anywhere. Subject is not notable in his profession and does not pass WP:PROF nor, obviously, WP:GNG. Drmies (talk) 04:03, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sources Looks like all sources were deleted . Here is a link to an older version of this article. More than enough sources :

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gjek%C3%AB_Marinaj&oldid=471257612

Tony Zaknic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.248.93.201 (talk) 08:45, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think the reason most of those sources were removed was because they don't fulfil Wikipedia's guidelines for identifying reliable sources. However, I was able to track down the text of the UTD Mercury article on Marinaj's website. (The UTD Mercury is the student newspaper of the University of Texas at Dallas.) This makes an interesting read, and I think it can count toward notability. However, because it is only a student newspaper, and has some connection with Marinaj, we should not give it too much weight. The coverage of the Pjeter Abnori prize for literature may be worth more consideration, though. I quote: "The award is given annually to an Albanian or international author in recognition of their ongoing contribution to national and world literature, essentially equivalent to the Pulitzer Prize in the United States." I couldn't find any other information about this award in my searches, though. Maybe someone else knows where to find such information? — Mr. Stradivarius ^♫ 10:52, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That true, Mr. Stradivarius. Well, Looks like Gjeke Marinaj was guest editor of the Translation Review 76, but even though it is a scholarly journal of ALTA (American LiteraryTtranslation Association) it is published by The University of Texas at Dallas where he is getting his PhD... Not sure that counts. Or does it? This is the link http://translation.utdallas.edu/resources/pubs/TR76.pdf

I also was able to dig some sources including the one you found. The one from the Dallas Morning News sounds interesting. But it cannot be found in their website either. Should I send them a short note enquiring about the article? It might help us on making a better decision one way or the other. I also found something in a Russian or Polish magazine involving him: http://apraksinblues.narod.ru/AB21_eng/Marinaj_Crewdson.pdf

Well, here are what I got this morning:

Crossing Borders to New Life

Marlo Kysik

Baylor Progress, November 2009, p. 5

Award carries poetic justice

Eric Nicholson

The UTD Mercury, Vol. XXIX, No.1, January 12, 2009, pp. 1&4

Neighbors in the community

Janet Vance

Neighbors: Dallas Morning News Publication, March 24, 2007, p. 16

Honor has deep meaning

Brent Flynn

The Dallas Morning News, August 18, 2005 Page: 1S Section: Richardson Zone: DALLAS

Edition: SECOND

Student Wins Golden Pen Award

Linda Blasnik

The Brookhaven Courier, Vol. 22, No. 9, March 1, 2000, p. 3

I will keep looking for some more sources after work. Somehow the recent activities in his page history make me feel rushed . And you and I both are trying to be fair here. Tony Zaknic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.248.93.201 (talk) 13:27, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If he was guest editor, then we can't accept Translation Review as a source for notability purposes, sorry. The Apraxin Blues source is a little more interesting. From its description in our Tatyana Apraksina article, I would tend to class it as a "special interest publication". This means that we can use it to judge notability, but that it would not have as much weight as a publication for a general audience, such as a national newspaper. I admit to not being fully up to speed on my Russian/Polish magazines, though, so if I have misjudged this publication feel free to set me straight. As for the other sources, they look promising, but we can't be sure that they actually discuss Marinaj unless we see them. (Or see a quotation from them, at least.) Sending the newspapers involved a note asking for the article might be a good idea. Let us know what you hear from them. Best — Mr. Stradivarius ^♫ 14:15, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, the two or three Apraxin Blues related Wikipedia articles are the product of a WP:COI editor who contributes to and works with the magazine. Follow edit history and user links for details. In sum, I wouldn't bet on it, not only because it's here on Wiki, but also because it's COI product. JFHJr (㊟) 23:59, 15 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albania-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:23, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:24, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:24, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – I agree the subject falls short of WP:ANYBIO and WP:GNG. Substantial coverage in reliable third party sources isn't forthcoming, at least to any extent that it might support encyclopedic prose. None of the awards is noteworthy; most coverage is by related parties, local, or special interest publications. Considering what's available, substantial coverage by multiple reliable sources is not met. JFHJr (㊟) 05:14, 15 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The author most-probably isn't famous, but he satisfies the minimum required for notability, at least from the credible sources available to us now. The Canadian scholar Robert Elsie is regarded as an author that fulfills WP:NPOV, while his works on Albanian history, religion, literature etc are accepted in various wikipedia articles as reliable and credible sources. Here: [1] he publishes a short but considerable bio on Gjekë Marinaj, which I have included in the reference list. I assume this site [2] is acceptable as well, and I have excerpted this editor's note [3], where Marinaj is mentioned in the forefront as well as this short bio [4] in the end. The Pjetër Arbnori Award is a new national (from Albania, but not intended only for Albanians) award, so difficult to find online information or good coverage in English reliable sources. Anyway, the same prize in 2007 was awarded to the poet and Nobel nominee Frederick Turner, (there's the article from Gazeta Shqip here: [5] in Albanian though) a book of whom is translated from Marinaj into Albanian. He's recipient of another international award in literature and for notability, he has also been the Society of Albanian-American Writers' president [6] [7]. The largest work on depuffing had already been done by the time I started editing the article, nevertheless I have added several inline citations that help the article. I strongly recommend to reconsider the deletion of this figure since it is notable and by now there are credible sources that back up a large part of info on it. With a little more work it can stand pretty well. I hope user Tony Zaknic can help with his sources as well. With due respect, Empathictrust (talk) 00:14, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Protonism for an indication that articles and contributions surrounding Frank Turner should be regarded with caution; not because of his own independent noteworthiness, but because of coattail riding is not permitted and the clear personal involvement is evident between these individuals. ~~Another discussion mentioning the connection was deleted at SPI; I've requested the archiving admin restore it. I will provide a link if this is done.~~ JFHJr (㊟) 02:23, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here it is: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Festes/Archive, initial comment by Drmies. More than one editor has noted the connection, at any rate. JFHJr (㊟) 03:39, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You wrote above that "None of the awards is noteworthy... and regarding the Pjetër Arbnori Award 's worthiness I made short concentrate description, mentioning that Frederick Turner (poet) was a recipient of it, too, considering that at least one of his awards satisfies the first point of WP:ANYBIO, as the award is well known (leastwise around the few million Albanians in and out Albania) and significant in the field of literature. I don't intend WP:NOTINHERITED, despite they may have professional affiliation. I still do stress on the reliable source of Robert Elsie [8] and the coverage he makes, as a secondary source, independent of the subject, as well as [[9]], a poetry website that comprises most of the United States, and why not [10] which make up three online, English sources that satisfy general notability guideline. Empathictrust (talk) 08:34, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In google scholar you can find this critical essay, in Albanian though [11] Empathictrust (talk) 08:44, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I received the sources that Tony Zaknic mentioned a few days ago, and I have finally got round to looking through them. Here are the ones that looked most reliable:
- Flynn, Brent (August 18, 2005). "Honor has deep meaning". The Dallas Morning News. p. 1S. - major newspaper, decent-length article of which about 400 words is dedicated to Marinaj, looks legitimate
- Beka, Alfred (December 25, 2008). "Marinaj Fiton 'Arbnorin'". Gazeta Express (in Albanian). p. 21. - Kosovar national newspaper (when I say "national", bear in mind that the territory is disputed), full-page spread, very good biographical coverage (checked with Google Translate), looks legitimate
- Veselaj, Arben (27 May 2008). "Shkolla Amerikane e një poezie Shqipe" (in Albanian). Lajm. p. 23. - Kosovar national tabloid, 300 words, good quality of coverage (checked with Google Translate), looks legitimate

There were about seven or eight more of varying degrees of coverage, reliability, and independence from Marinaj, but after seeing the three above I don't feel the need to post them all. Looking at these, I have to concede that Marinaj is notable. (And that's without considering his Pjetër Arbnori Award.) I won't close the discussion just yet, as there have already been four delete !votes, and people might wish to comment. But, I think I will close it after a day or so. If anyone wants to see the PDFs, I can forward them by email on request. — Mr. Stradivarius ^♫ 14:53, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

p.s. when I say "close", I of course mean withdrawing my nomination. — Mr. Stradivarius ^♫ 15:28, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I don't understand. The only rationale for deletion was lack of notability, so if you now have come to the reasoned and substantiated conclusion that the subject of the article meets our notability requirements, then why don't you simply withdraw your nomination? What else is there to discuss? Discussion for the sake of discussion? --Lambiam 20:08, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I thought that some of the delete !voters would want to discuss the sources that I listed. But you're probably right, there is nothing much to be gained from keeping this open longer. I'm closing it now. — Mr. Stradivarius ^♫ 23:22, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Based on the above, it appears he's notable.JoelWhy (talk) 12:41, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Personally, I do appreciate User:Mr. Stradivarius objective reasoning regarding the sources and his decision of withdrawing his nomination for deletion, despite the removal and reinstallation of the deletion tag … I, too have received a considerable amount of sources from Mr. Zaknic, as concerning the life and works of Gjekë Marinaj. I selected some other references, which I saw reliable enough and the most suitable for WP:inline citation in the article itself. There are many PDF attached articles as well which I’m not including.

Here is a list of five newspaper articles regarding the author Marinaj from 3 major and internationally known newspapers, 2 from Albania and 1 from Kosovo:

[12] from Shekulli newspaper (November 29, 2011) entitled “Zogaj në SHBA me “Occurrence on Earth” (in Albanian) 230 words shortly describing Marinaj and his work

Demollari, Elona (April 19, 2008) “15 shqiptarët më të famshëm në SHBA” (in Albanian) from Shekulli newspaper a short bio of Gjekë Marinaj is listed among the 15 most famous Albanians in USA

[13] Gojani, Mikel (June 29, 2009) “Lirizmi poetik i Gjekë Marinajt” (in Albanian), page 28, from Shqip newspaper a critical reflection on Marinaj’ s lyricism.

[14] Tafa, Astrit (November 19, 2011) “Dy orë poezi shqipe në SHBA” (in Albanian) describing Preç Zogaj and Gjekë Marinaj’s poetry

[15] Sina, Beqir (April 5, 2011) “Nju Jork: U festua 10 vjetori i krijimit të Shoqatës së Shkrimtarëve Shqiptaro-Amerikanë” (in Albanian) from Bota Sot newspaper, celebrating the 10th anniversary of the Society of Albanian-American Writers, founder and first president of which was Gj. Marinaj.

English sources:

From Brookhaven College [16]

From Richland College, this article: This week’s RLC update – Marinaj awarded literature prize where Marinaj’ s “Pjeter Arbnori Award” is regarded as the equivalent to the Pulitzer Prize in the United States.

From [17] by Nicholson, Eric (January 2, 2010) there’s a two page article regarding Gjekë Marinaj entitled “Award carries poetic justice”

I have some serious concern though, regarding a double standard when dealing with non autoconfirmed users or possible sock puppetry. I was presented with this Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Festes/Archive by JFHJr as per non violating WP:NOTINHERITED. Ok to block IP of sockpuppets that persist on keeping this article, but what about this one 87.236.90.41 that has been editing on Wikipedia for not more than 5 hours and a half [18], just to contribute for exterminating Gjekë Marinaj from here and his new theory of Protonism?! Do you take any measures for this or you just add up his vote “Delete”? This backed up his vote by saying there’s “0 (no) hits on Google News” for Marinaj… so per analogy, are we about to nominate for deletion the Indian authors Shakti Chattopadhyay and Samir Roychoudhury of the Hungryalist movement, since there’s no hit on Google News for them? Is this reasoning and how the votes are taken into account?! They’re both Postmodern writers and their movement may still seem as non notable by someone who’s not accustomed with that literature, but it is well-known for around 1 billion people.

Also this extremely obnoxious and dreadful, as well as mentally-unstable-looking comment [19] containing racial slur pointing at a whole community is truly frightening here. I wrote at the Administators’ noticeboard to take into serious consideration both of these IPs. It seems to me there’s a tendency of denial around here ( in a “Delete” vote’s comment is written: No sources anywhere) despite these many credible sources provided. I will still find some time to include more inline citations in the article, from the above mentioned references. With due respect, Empathictrust (talk) 20:43, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.