Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gilbert Hitch

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The answer to Sintch (t c)'s question is no, under current guidelines, a stamp designer is not intrinsically notable, and the consensus here is a lack of sources to otherwise establish his notability. —Darkwind (talk) 06:12, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Gilbert Hitch[edit]

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Non-notable per WP:BIO -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 19:01, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:58, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:58, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:58, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom: there's only barely a claim of notability here, and no reason to think that Mr Hitch was notable Nick-D (talk) 01:29, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep : Satisfies "significant enough to deserve attention or to be recorded" (by virtue of his contribution to Norfolk Island's philatelic history) according to WP:BIO. Alternatively it could be re-titled "Stamps of Gilbert Hitch" Sintch (talk) 02:51, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But there is a paucity of refs on the subject. He could be mentioned in the Postage stamps and postal history of Norfolk Island article though. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 22:51, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I take your point. I guess my article sought to acknowledge the designer rather than the stamp. Just as the song writer's contribution is eclipsed by the fame of the singer, such is it for the designer of a stamp. And if you are not really interested in stamps then its designer will be of far greater insignificance.

I did look to precedents for guidance and found the following articles,

Hitch was a local Norfolk Islander. He designed about 40 stamps over a period of 20 years. There are a number of local contributors to the Island's philatelic history. Perhaps another list? "List of local designers of stamps for Norfolk Island"Sintch (talk) 03:51, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A List of local designers of stamps for Norfolk Island article is not needed. The Postage stamps and postal history of Norfolk Island will suffice. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 18:27, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Courcelles 02:22, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This article was rejected "Non-notable per WP:BIO". Then the failure to satisfy WP:BIO is defended with "But there is a paucity of refs on the subject. He could be mentioned in the Postage stamps and postal history of Norfolk Island article"

The paucity of articles on stamps of Norfolk Island is only one article titled Postage stamps and postal history of Norfolk Islandand it is not biographical. It comes under the project Wikipedia:WikiProject Philately which provides for a list of philatelic topics that doesn't include the designer.

I have studied the WP:BIO requirements. I have referred to the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes

"Notability on Wikipedia is an inclusion criterion based on the encyclopedic suitability of an article topic. For Wikipedia:Notability (people), the person who is the topic of a biographical article should be "worthy of notice" – that is, "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded"[1] within Wikipedia as a written account of that person's life. "Notable" in the sense of being "famous" or "popular" – although not irrelevant – is secondary."

Hitch was not popular or famous in Australia. But it is my submission that he is worthy of notice for "significant, interesting enough to deserve attention or to be recorded"

1). If we examine the basic criteria for notability WP:BASIC

"A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of multiple published[3] secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent of each other,[4] and independent of the subject.[5] If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability.[6] Primary sources may be used to support content in an article, but they do not contribute toward proving the notability of a subject. People who meet the basic criteria may be considered notable without meeting the additional criteria below. Articles may still not be created for such people if they fall under exclusionary criteria, such as being notable only for a single event, or such as those listed in What Wikipedia is not."

It is my submission that Hitch satisfies this. He is not the subject of an in depth study but he is listed in multiple independent secondary sources that demonstrate notability. The book "Norfolk Island Stamps 1947 - 1991" and many issues of the 'Australian Stamp Bulletin' identify him as the designer of stamps.

2). The criteria for any bio WP:ANYBIO

"The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for one several times. The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field.[7]"

It is my submission that Hitch satisfies this by virtue of his widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his specific field.

3). Creative professionals WP:CREATIVE

"The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors. The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory or technique. The person has created, or played a major role in co-creating, a significant or well-known work, or collective body of work, that has been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews. The person's work (or works) either (a) has become a significant monument, (b) has been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) has won significant critical attention, or (d) is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums."

a) Hitch is regarded as an important figure by his successors on Norfolk Island for his philatelic contribution. I will seek to have David Buffett provide a response to this article. b) Hitch's work has become a significant monument or been part of a significant exhibition of Norfolk Island's philatelic history. Sintch (talk) 14:55, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What appears to be the issue here is simply "Is a designer of stamps considered to be a notable person for the purposes of wikipedia?"

It would be good if this could be determined by wikipedia. There are some wonderful artists who have contributed to our Australian Philatelic history that could come under this umbrella. Sintch (talk) 00:53, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Subject lacks coverage in independent reliable sources. Books lack independent reviews. Designing a few stamps does not make someone notable. Re the above claims 1) being mentioned is not substantial coverage. 2) No evidence shown of a "widely recognized contribution". 3) a) No evidence shown that "Hitch is regarded as an important figure". b) No evidence shown of a significant monument significant exhibition. A listing of his name in a more complete Postage stamps and postal history of Norfolk Island may be warranted but it in it's current state any mention would be undue weight. duffbeerforme (talk) 12:29, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The book and various issues of 'The Australian Stamp Bulletin' are reliable independent sources. "Designing a few stamps does not make someone notable" signals that this contributor may be unable to objectively contribute to this discussion. The stamp is a piece of art. Is it not appropriate to recognize the creator of that piece of art which
1. ~~can become very valuableSintch (talk) 02:23, 5 January 2013 (UTC)~~[reply]

You cannot !vote twice. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 03:24, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry Alan. Am I permitted to comment without voting?

The book and various issues of 'The Australian Stamp Bulletin' are reliable independent sources. "Designing a few stamps does not make someone notable" is the issue here. Although some may not wish to acknowledge it, the stamp is a piece of art.Sintch (talk) 14:42, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Like with any artist, their work may be valuable and even important in an area. That said, it does not necessarily mean that they are notable enough for inclusion in an encyclopedia. I certainly applaud this person's work, but there simply does not seem to be adequate coverage from a wide range of sources. Mkdw ^talk 03:25, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.