Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/French dynastic disputes

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Monarchism in France. best solution DGG ( talk ) 09:12, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

French dynastic disputes[edit]

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This was actually an expired PROD, originally tagged by Whaleyland (talk · contribs). I largely agree with his well-argued rationale (reproduced below), but I think that the article is debated enough (based on the lengthy discussion on the talk page) that PROD is not suitable, especially given that it could just be undeleted at any time after. I would rather see this get a full AfD to settle the issue completely with consensus from a wider set of eyes. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:25, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The article has been tagged as disputed, original research, and point-of-view since April 2015. Numerous editors have discussed in detail on the Talk page the problems of this article. It is one sided, focusing almost exclusively on the merits of Legitimism over Orléanism and Bonapartism (neither of which are given much space in the article). Furthermore, this article lacks credible sources for the amount of content it contains. Despite well-made arguments on this page, this material is not encyclopedic and does not contribute meaningful, reliable information to the Wikipedia reader base. Ultimately, it reflects almost exclusively the original research of User:Reigen and the content is entirely biased and disputed.
— Whaleyland, [1]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 01:14, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 01:14, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:NUKEANDPAVE. I agree with what FactStraight said a couple years ago: "This smacks of original research". This is an OR-fest of opinion with almost no reasonable sourcing for the topic. I'd been fine with a nice, quiet PROD but I'm ok forcing this through so it can't be re-created. In 2015 this was translated from the fr-wiki article (which is still a mess, indicative of the subject) and hasn't gotten any improvement in sourcing or coherence since. Google Scholar shows a couple possible sources but I can't see much if any of this convoluted bullet-point miasma being useful to the task. Chris Troutman (talk) 02:34, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NUKEANDPAVE. I didn't even know this was an option when I proposed it for deletion. I think the French article needs to also be deleted, but that would probably require somebody capable of writing coherently in French. I can only read French coherently :-( – Whaleyland (Talk • Contributions) 03:09, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Legitimists, Orléanists and Bonapartists do exist, in French we speak of the 3 rights. A quick search on the french wikipedia leads to fr:Les Droites en France which is lauded by France Culture as a classical work. Another google search lead to [2] and [3] which sum up the subject quite well.

I notice that other parts of the article are certainly notable :
- The Valois part makes the origin of the Hundred Years War which is one of the most important event in the history of France and UK in the Middle Ages.
- The Bourbon part is part of the French Wars of Religion which I studied in high school.
In short, the article should be rewritten (I feel the Arrêt Lemaistre is given undue weight) but not deleted. Regards, Comte0 (talk) 02:57, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep but prune -- The earlier part of the article seems to list the issues succinctly, making this useful in providing an overview, and leading to more detailed articles. I suspect that the latter part is getting close to WP:OR, but I am not expert on this. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:38, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —UY Scuti ^Talk 18:28, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I think delete everything after the lede. If all OR is cut from the article, that first section is nearly all that is left. Even the very first phrase after the lede, "To better understand", is a signal of OR, in my opinion. I am not sure if the first section is enough for an article, but I would think that a few good sources could be found for it. Smmurphy^(Talk) 18:55, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just to provide some additional context, there also are currently articles on Monarchism in France. Legitimists, Orléanist (see also Line of succession to the French throne (Orléanist)), Bonapartiste, and the second half of Succession to the French throne. I feel between these, our bases are pretty well covered, probably excessively so. – Whaleyland (Talk • Contributions) 20:28, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 02:49, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Monarchism in France as largely uncited OR, per WP:TNT; anything useful can be picked up from the article history. The topic may be notable and an article may subsequently be created to cover it, but this page ain't it. K.e.coffman (talk) 08:09, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman (talk) 08:11, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Monarchism in France and merge anything useful there. This is a WP:CFORK. Sandstein 09:45, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.