Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Franco Orgera

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. A discussion on whether or not to redirect / merge instead can happen after this AfD is closed. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 10:55, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Franco Orgera

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Orgera was a non-medaling Olympic Competitor. We lack any significant coverage here, and my search for significant coverage in multiple places showed nothing. Just additional name drops. John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:48, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2022 March 21. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 13:05, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep according to the sources for his entry on the German wiki, he was also in the fascist volunteer corps in the Spanish Civil War, and was awarded with the (a) Merit Cross. At worst, redirect to Modern pentathlon at the 1936 Summer Olympics, per WP:ATD, WP:PRESERVE, WP:R#KEEP and WP:CHEAP. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 13:19, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Sportspeople, and Italy. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 15:19, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Insufficient WP:BEFORE. No Great Shaker (talk) 10:38, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- There are no significant sources added to the article. No one has even put forth one source that is on the level of meeting GNG, let alone the multiple sources that are required.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:43, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - For crying out loud, John, you have been here long enough to know that it's the sources that exist that matter, not those currently cited in the article. If you want the sources found by Lugnuts in the German article to be added then you know full well where the edit tag is, so get up off your behind and [expletive deleted] add them. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:52, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - The above comment is clearly abusive. I am tired of people being allowed to verbally abuse me on Wikipedia.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:00, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      - It's not abusive at all, but merely a statement of Wikipedia policy/guidelines, which, for some reason, you have been allowed to get away with ignoring for many years. I will admit that I made one mistake: you can cite sources in a Wikipedia article without even getting up off your behind. The whole point of an open wiki is that if you see something that you want to be done you can do it yourself, rather than look for someone to order to do it for you. Phil Bridger (talk) 14:12, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        Well said, Phil. If JPL gets harsher responses sometimes, it's usually just a reaction to his behavior.--Darwinek (talk) 14:52, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - obviously no WP:BEFORE, given the easy accessibility of sources as above. If not kept nevertheless, then redirect as per Lugnuts. Ingratis (talk) 04:56, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd just like to add that both Phil and Ingratis are absolutely right. If this isn't kept, then redirect per Lugnuts. No Great Shaker (talk) 08:55, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Olympics-related deletion discussions. No Great Shaker (talk) 09:55, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment No one has specified which sources in German actually constitute significant coverage that would add towards GNG. No one has cited which specific sources they think meet this requirement. I am not fluent in German, and Wikipedia is not a reliable source, so I am not just going to move over some sources without understanding htem. The attack above is clearly verbal abuse and needs to stop.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:06, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- The standard procedure would be to say X source, which is reliable because of Y reasons, says Z about Orgera. Just saying "the German Wikipedia has sources that indicate such and such" does not infact reach that level.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:27, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - I tend to agree with Johnpacklambert (and I don't do that particularly often). Of the 3 sources on the de.wiki article, [1] doesn't seem to tell me anything, and the other two are offline book sources, so not sure how to tell whether they are significant coverage or not (it appears he may have had a military career and fought in the Spanish Civil War according to the text in de.wiki, but that doesn't confer notability). Joseph2302 (talk) 15:29, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - The difference between you and John Pack Lambert is that you are prepared to actually look at the sources offered above, but he demands that they should be added to the English Wikipedia article before even taking them into consideration. I agree that the source that you linked is useless for our purposes here (and probably for any other purpose).The first book source in the German article has a link to a PDF copy, from which I can see that much of page 53 is taken up with the Olympic records of Franco Orgera and Ugo Ceccarelli. If you have made up your mind that the subject is notable then this is significant coverage, but if you have made up you mind that he is not then it is not. Either position can be argued, as can usually be done when we are following the highly-subjective GNG. I can't find a copy of the other source but, as it is a daily official bulletin of the Ministry of War, it just looks like confirmation that he received a medal. Phil Bridger (talk) 16:23, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or Redirect per other users above. - Darwinek (talk) 14:52, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - easily meets GNG with the easy accessibility of sources as above. The nominator obviously took a quick look at the article and decided, that rather than spend the required effort of performing WP:BEFORE and chose to waste the time of all the other editors who have looked into this. Please stop abusing us with this misbehavior. Jacona (talk) 22:42, 26 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to event article. There are some other sources, and I have looked for myself in Italian. But it seems to me that there isn't appropriate SIGCOV in the sources identified from the de.wiki article, and most of the Italian searching throws up lists/databases of all Italian Olympians, which also can only be supplementary. Kingsif (talk) 14:38, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.