Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Four Seasons Hotel Austin

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete; I have redirected the title to Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts, as the subject is mentioned there. bd2412 T 03:21, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Four Seasons Hotel Austin[edit]

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An directory-like page on an unremarkable hotel. Significant RS coverage not found; fails WP:NOTTRAVELGUIDE. What comes up is passing mentions or travel guide entries. The article was a part of a group AfD nomination in 2009 (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Four Seasons Hotel Atlanta), which closed as "Keep / nomination withdrawn", hence the second AfD. K.e.coffman (talk) 05:41, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman (talk) 05:42, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 06:30, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
1. Gee, Robert W. (2000-07-21). "Welcome to Plugged Inn - Hotels in Austin and elsewhere cater to tech-savvy travelers (just don't try to cheat the mini-bar)". Austin American-Statesman. Archived from the original on 2017-09-08. Retrieved 2017-09-08.
  The article notes:
  
  Some, like the Four Seasons Hotel Austin and the Driskill Hotel, have upped the ante. They offer fast wireless Internet access in public areas -- the lobby, the bar, the restaurant, many of the conference rooms, and at the Four Seasons, even the pool.
  The Four Seasons, as a test case for Wayport, was the first hotel in the world to have a wireless Internet network, in 1997. But only now do some guests come equipped with wireless Ethernet cards that allow them to use the service.
  In a timeline titled "Hotel technology through the years", the article notes:
  1997: Four Seasons Hotel Austin is the first hotel to install a high-speed wireless Internet network.
2. Barnes, Michael (2017-03-08). "When Queen Elizabeth II stayed at the Four Seasons Austin Hotel". Austin American-Statesman. Archived from the original on 2017-09-08. Retrieved 2017-09-08.
  The article notes:
  
  Do you think they’ll shoot an episode of “The Crown” in Austin? If so, they absolutely must use the Four Seasons Hotel Austin as a location.
  Why so? Because Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II stayed there in 1991.
  ...
  As the venerable luxury hotel celebrates its 30th anniversary, we dig into its pictures and stories at the Austin Found blog. U.S. Presidents have included Presidents George W. Bush and George H. W. Bush, as well as Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford, although the latter two did not spend the night.
  The hotel has hosted royalty and heads of state from Saudi Arabia, Spain and Australia. Two who surely appreciated the full-size beds: Former British Prime Minister John Major (6 feet) and former Mexican President Vincente Fox (6 feet, 4 inches).
  Sports legends Willie Mays, Pete Rose and Joe DiMaggio rested their weary frames here, as did Hollywood luminaries Gregory Peck, Lauren Bacall, Rod Steiger, Robert DeNiro, Robert Duvall and Debbie Reynolds.
  The media were represented by Walter Cronkite, Jim Lehrer, Mike Wallace and Rupert Murdoch — a more-frequent but extremely quiet visitor to our town during his recent courtship of Texas model and actress Jerry Hall.
3. Seale, Shelley. "The Telegraph Review. Four Seasons Hotel Austin Austin, Texas, United States". The Daily Telegraph. Archived from the original on 2017-09-08. Retrieved 2017-09-08.
  The review notes:
  
  Timeless elegance and Texas hospitality – that’s what the Four Seasons in Austin is all about. The iconic brand’s hotel in the state capital city lives up to its reputation for the latest amenities, attention to detail and fastidious service.
4. Dinges, Gary (2015-05-09). "Four Seasons' new owner - loves the Austin market - Chicago company says it's intrigued by other Texas locations". Austin American-Statesman. Archived from the original on 2017-09-08. Retrieved 2017-09-08.
  The article notes:
  
  A chance to buy "the best hotel in one of the strongest markets in the nation" doesn't come along often, Strategic Hotels and Resorts CEO Raymond Gellein Jr. said.
  That's why the Chicago-based company was quick to express interest when the 291-room Four Seasons Hotel Austin went on the market this year.
  Strategic Hotels and Resorts said Monday it will pay $197 million for the luxury hotel, buying it from Lodging Capital Partners and Prudential. The transaction is expected to close by month's end.
5. Dinges, Gary (2015-01-31). "Austin - Four - Seasons for sale - Renovated luxe hotel 2nd high-end inn this week to go on market". Austin American-Statesman. Archived from the original on 2017-09-08. Retrieved 2017-09-08.
  The article notes:
  
  Suddenly, two high-profile downtown Austin hotels are on the market.
  The building that is home to the Four Seasons Hotel Austin, 98 San Jacinto Blvd., is for sale, a hotel spokeswoman confirmed Friday. The news came just hours after the developer of the W Austin Hotel, at 200 Lavaca St., revealed in a securities filing Thursday that a company had been hired to market that building, as well.
  The Four Seasons is owned by Lodging Capital Partners and Prudential; the W is owned by a partnership led by Austin-based Stratus Properties Inc.
  ...
  The 291-room Four Seasons was built in 1986 and renovated extensively in 2007 and 2014. The Travis Central Appraisal District valued the property at $106.8 million in 2014.
6. "travel42 Hotel Review: Four Seasons Hotel Austin". Travel Weekly. Archived from the original on 2017-09-08. Retrieved 2017-09-08.
  The article notes:
  
  Although it lacks the historic charm of the Driskill Hotel and haute, refreshed style at the enormous new JW Marriott, this Four Seasons, located two blocks east of Congress Avenue, remains Austin's most luxurious property, an exceptional endeavor purpose-built to impress even hard-to-please travelers.
7. "Four Seasons Hotel Austin: A waterfront gem in downtown Austin". Forbes Travel Guide. Archived from the original on 2017-09-08. Retrieved 2017-09-08.
  The article notes:
  
  Since opening in 1986, Four Seasons Hotel Austin has maintained its reputation for elegance and top-notch hospitality. Situated along Lady Bird Lake, just a stone’s throw from the Congress Avenue Bridge, the Forbes Travel Guide Four-Star hotel has the benefit of peaceful privacy from its tucked-away spot in lively downtown Austin.
  The property’s central yet secluded locale has attracted guests traveling both for business and pleasure, and made it a favorite of visiting musicians and celebrities.
  The hotel is undergoing a massive renovation, which will be completed in the fall of 2017, enhancing the current 291 guest rooms and adding three more (plus five new suites).
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Four Seasons Hotel Austin to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 07:06, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Four Seasons Hotel Atlanta participants and closer: Jezhotwells (talk · contribs), Raime (talk · contribs), W Nowicki (talk · contribs), TonyTheTiger (talk · contribs), DGG (talk · contribs), John Quincy Adding Machine (talk · contribs), and Arbitrarily0 (talk · contribs). Cunard (talk) 07:06, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. of the sources above, #1 is a mention in an article about hotels in the cit and internet access in hotels generally; 2 a PR piece from a newspaper in its own city; 3 , an uncritical travel guide using promotional language, tho from an usually reliable newspaper; 5 a real estate notice; 6 and 7 are commercial travel guides and unreliable for notability. {{U}Cunard}},you can usually find better sources than these DGG ( talk ) 19:01, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Nothing notable to say about it. W Nowicki (talk) 19:20, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I don't think you can truly say nothing notable to say. The one about the queen has a lot of other impressive facts. The one from the Austin American-Statesman also has some facts. Together these alone probably suffice for WP:GNG.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:53, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NCORP. Of the sourced supplied by Cunard, they are all either hotel guides, reviews, PRs or news items with very little coverage outside of local level. Not convinced this is notable. Ajf773 (talk) 09:15, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This seems like a run-of-the-mill hotel from a national chain. Wikipedia is not a hotel directory. Most of Cunard's references are to hotel-directory type pages. Power~enwiki (π, ν) 02:55, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Sources (including those listed above, but not added to the article) are trivial passing mentions. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 13:36, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The hotel has been reviewed in The Daily Telegraph, Travel Weekly, and Forbes Travel Guide. How are those "trivial passing mentions"? The 2017-03-08 Austin American-Statesman article discusses the hotel's history of serving notable guests like Queen Elizabeth II.
Cunard (talk) 17:17, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Telegraph source looks like an advert. As a general rule of thumb, having written / saved a few hotel articles, ones built before about 1930 tend to be notable, ones after that generally aren't aside from exceptional circumstances. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 18:31, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Daily Telegraph source is a review written by travel writer Shelley Seale. She gave the hotel a 6/10 for "Value for money". An advertisement would not give a hotel a 6/10 for "Value for money".

I consider a hotel notable if it has received "significant coverage in reliable sources", not if it was build before 1930. If you are looking for something "exceptional", this hotel is "the first hotel to install a high-speed wireless Internet network" and has had noteworthy guests like Queen Elizabeth II, Gregory Peck, Walter Cronkite, Jim Lehrer, Mike Wallace, Rupert Murdoch, etc.

Cunard (talk) 20:29, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

DGG (talk · contribs), W Nowicki (talk · contribs), Ajf773 (talk · contribs), Power~enwiki (talk · contribs), and Ritchie333 (talk · contribs), would you support a merge to the parent article, Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts? I would prefer a merge in lieu of deletion.
Cunard (talk) 17:17, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Opposed to merge. What would you merge? There's nothing in this article except totally generic information like how many rooms it has. The proposed target article says they have more than 100 hotels. What's so special about this one that it stands out from the others? Or are you proposing that the parent article contain a list of all 100+ properties? -- RoySmith (talk) 18:36, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - I would merge:
    1. It is located on the shores of Lady Bird Lake, a reservoir of the Colorado River of Texas in Downtown Austin.
    2. Its restaurant, TRIO, is a four-star restaurant, like the hotel.
    3. The 9-story hotel was built in 1987.
    4. Located near the Austin Convention Center and the entertainment district, the hotel offers 291 guest rooms, including 28 suites.
    I would also add information about how the hotel is "the first hotel to install a high-speed wireless Internet network" and information about its architectural style and ownership history.
    The proposed target article says they have more than 100 hotels. What's so special about this one that it stands out from the others? Or are you proposing that the parent article contain a list of all 100+ properties? – no other hotels have this special claim: "The Four Seasons [in Austin], as a test case for Wayport, was the first hotel in the world to have a wireless Internet network, in 1997." The proposed target article can have a section discussing hotels like Four Seasons Hotel Austin. When that section becomes too big, then a spinoff can happen to a "List of Four Seasons Hotels".
    Cunard (talk) 20:29, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    - Still opposed. None of that is worth mentioning. -- RoySmith (talk) 20:55, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      - I have explained why it is worth mentioning. You said you disagree. We will have to agree to disagree. Cunard (talk) 22:58, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      - I consider a merge fully appropriate, if only the minimum amount of material is merged. I think Cunard has the right approach here--I too have always advocated merging for chains of this sort; we shouldn't be stuck in the dilemma of either having an article or nothing. But I suggest that ""the first hotel to install a high-speed wireless Internet network" is a claim requiring interpretation that would require a very good source, not just a newspaper article. DGG ( talk ) 23:34, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as per WP:NOTDIRECTORY. Nothing but trivial and routine coverage of a local hotel of a chain. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 18:52, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Delete per Wikipedia:NOTDIR, as this hotel is merely a local installment of a larger brand.--SamHolt6 (talk) 22:04, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I have added information about Four Seasons Hotel Austin to Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts. Cunard (talk) 22:58, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete this article has been up since 2007 and there is virtually nothing on the article in terms of both content and sources. Only 2 sentences on it before being nominated for deletion.Huitzilopochtli1990 (talk) 22:59, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.