Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fighter Toads

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 20:04, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fighter Toads

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PROD rationale was "Non-notable character article with little to no chance of being sourced." But I'm taking this to AFD for input on a merge or redirect. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 00:11, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 00:11, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 00:11, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Animal-related deletion discussions. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 00:11, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 00:11, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merge basic real world info to Raj Comics. We can keep the creation info, but doesn't need it's own article. --Killer Moff- ill advisedly sticking his nose in since 2011 (talk) 11:53, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Added a further ref, and there are others that I can't access rn ([this book|https://books.google.com/books?id=SSM4r36KjuQC] talks about it according to Google Search, but Google has no preview and I'm not in a library.) Ford MF (talk) 20:50, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep WP:INDIA contributor here, who is also familiar with Indian comics characters. This is one of the popular comics characters published in Hindi language. The sourcing issues are due to WP:BIAS (mainly language and Internet bias). So it is wrong to use the same measuring scale for Indian and American comics characters. We are doing a disservice to Wikipedia if we delete such articles on the basis of lack of coverage in English media. This will impact our coverage of Indian topics. Inspite of the BIAS the user above has produced a RS, which are enough for me to !vote keep here, considering sources can be found in offline Hindi language media.--DBig Xrayᗙ 17:40, 6 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Update: added a source, see discussion below.--DBig Xrayᗙ 11:38, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 01:50, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - The lack of availability of English language sources doesn't inherently signify that there will be Indian sources. I'm sure the ratio of notable to not-notable characters are similar. The source in the article seems to mention the topic in the capacity of a passing mention. I'm sure the author is notable, but that doesn't trickle down to the characters. TTN (talk) 11:05, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

TTN The opinion of local contributors who are familiar with the culture should be given weight in such cases that involves a vernacular language topic. The existing sources can help to make a calculated assumption on the presence/absence of vernacular language source. It is not that the English language sources dont exist, it is just that the number of them are not as much as the sources for English language comic books. So one can easily make mistakes in trying to judge the notability on the number of available sources. The book "Adventure Comics and Youth Cultures in India"^[1] has a section titled "Glossary of key Indian adventure comic book characters" where Fighter Toads is described in a para. When a book on youth culture covers the subject in a list of "key" characters it must mean something. If I get more time and dig more I am sure I will be able to find more but my point is, we can judge based on what we have at hand. I hope you will agree and reconsider your !vote to support. --DBig Xrayᗙ 11:38, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Kaur, Raminder; Eqbal, Saif (2018). Adventure Comics and Youth Cultures in India. Taylor & Francis. ISBN 9780429784316. Retrieved 13 September 2019.

Two sentences in a book is not significant. I'm not saying sources don't exist, as I lack the lingual abilities to confirm that, but I won't simply believe they exist on good faith either. What people don't seem to understand is that even if this is deleted, it can be brought back if notability is proven. This article has existed for 13 years. It has been given the benefit of the doubt. There's the idea that there is no need to rush things, but that is abused to keep stagnant pages around. TTN (talk) 11:51, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, the healthiest thing to do would be to mass redirect most of these articles to either the publisher page or author pages, and then work to split them out from there. I'm sure without a doubt India has plenty of characters that are notable, but it seems to have the Marvel/DC issue where people got out of hand with making pages. TTN (talk) 11:57, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest you to read WP:BIAS (if you havent yet) since you are claiming the exact opposite. We don't go on drives, deleting stubs claiming that "it was stagnant for x years". A Stub may remain stagnant due to lack of a volunteer editor interested to contribute there. It doesn't necessarily mean the stub was non notable. --DBig Xrayᗙ 12:02, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is that that can be used as an argument for inaction. It's not that different than people arguing the same about other characters, but now there is a language barrier. It's up to editors creating pages to prove notability. I get that sources could potentially be abundant for a topic, but it could also be there is nothing. This isn't an assumption of bad faith on your part at all. I just don't have any faith in the waiting game after so many people have promised results for nothing to happen. So many projects concerned for a minute, who then just go on to not even deal with the articles until I once again bring them to AfD. TTN (talk) 12:20, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Inspite of WP:BIAS, I have already presented a reliable source, a book from a reputed publisher Taylor & Francis, on youth culture, that covers the subject, in a list of "key" comic characters, I am not sure why you are choosing to ignore this. This IMHO is enough to argue that the article should stay. If you don't feel the same, then there is a difference of opinion and we can agree to disagree and let AfD run its course. Thank you for responding and engaging in the discussion. cheers. --DBig Xrayᗙ 13:40, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The source itself is reliable, but it provides nothing in particular about the characters. Being present in a reliable source is not the criteria, but rather being present in enough of a capacity to add substance to the article. One single substandard reference is not enough to latch onto the possibility of future improvement. TTN (talk) 15:16, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So you agree that the source is reliable. Now, Do you agree with the source, when it says that Fighter Toads is a "key comic character in India" ? --DBig Xrayᗙ 18:28, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yet it's not mentioned in any meaningful capacity. One person's opinions on what constitutes key characters isn't particularly helpful in determining potential notability. The glossary gives a cursory glance of some 50-ish characters. The likelihood of every one being notable is pretty low. It's not enough to give consideration that there may be more sources. TTN (talk) 19:18, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The book (that you agree is a reliable source) calls Fighter Toads a "key comic character in India" , and yet you refuse to agree with the book, and call it non notable. I will note this and end the discussion. I have already made my point and we seem to disagree. --DBig Xrayᗙ 07:04, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete- almost completely unsourced and choc-a-bloc full of original research and fancruft. It's no use claiming "But I'm sure there must be sources out there somewhere" if nobody can produce them. Maybe the title would be useful as a redirect to BattleToads for the benefit of people who are misremembering the name of the unbeatable old NES game. Reyk _YO! 13:42, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

WP:AFDISNOTCLEANUP and A reliable source that claims that Fighter Toads is a "key comic character in India" has already been produced above by me. So it is not true that "Nobody has produced them"--DBig Xrayᗙ 07:07, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (Talk) 15:39, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Cannot locate any significant coverage to indicate notability. Two sentences in a book doesn't cut it. --Darth Mike^(talk) 18:20, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The subject is a Hindi language comic, so IMHO you may not be looking at the right place. --DBig Xrayᗙ 11:53, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Fails WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage.4meter4 (talk) 16:34, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

[Raminder-1] Kaur, Raminder; Eqbal, Saif (2018). Adventure Comics and Youth Cultures in India. Taylor & Francis. ISBN 9780429784316. Retrieved 13 September 2019.

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