Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fairfield, Glasgow

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Govan. Tone 16:47, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fairfield, Glasgow[edit]

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Stub of what is alleged to be an area of Glasgow. Coordinates point to the home of Fairfield Shipbuilding and Engineering Company for which an extensive article already exists. The ref provided explains a heritage project relating to the company's historic headquarters. I have spoken to the project staff and visited the building. Yes, before the shipbuilding, Fairfield was a country estate with mansion and farm outside the village of Govan. But it was then built on for industry and became very much part of Govan, and remains so today. Is it a real place of historical significance? Yes, certainly. Is it an identifiable residential neighbourhood, defined separately from the communities of Govan and Linthouse which would need its own Wiki article in addition to the aforementioned? No, based on all evidence I have seen. The creator asks what if the shipyard closed and the site was redeveloped, it would still be Fairfield so what then, and consulting the WP:CRYSTALBALL, the name might remain but developers might call it something else like Upper Clyde Urban Beauty Haven or some other nonsense, and we would be obliged to call a new article that, or more likely just add the info to Govan or Linthouse with redirects. Crowsus (talk) 01:43, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Scotland-related deletion discussions. 01:54, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. 01:54, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2019 December 19. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 02:00, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per above, having one building with a name or having had a farm by that name in a spot 100 years ago but no indication anyone uses that name for the neighborhood doesn't rate an article. JamesG5 (talk) 03:35, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
~~Redirect to Govan~~, the 1st ref only mentions Fairfield, the 2nd is just to a map and the 3rd is a primary source. There are mentions of Fairfield Shipbuilding and Engineering Company in that article and there is also an article at Fairfield Offices. A Google Book search does return a few results for this area but they appear to be mainly talking about the company which we already have an article, therefore it doesn't appear this area is independently notable not being legally recognized on an OS settlement. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:32, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Given as noted that it was a ward it might well qualify as being notable for being a formerly legally recognized place. However it has been noted that ward boundaries change frequently and this might be an exception to that. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:57, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Govan, which was attempted as part of ATD. Does not appear to meet WP:GEOLAND, and not enough in-depth sourcing to meet WP:GNG.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 18:34, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Glasgow Govan (UK Parliament constituency). We ~~don't~~ shouldn't delete stuff on Wikipedia just because they no longer exist. The nom is to be applauded for physically checking on the ground but, for anyone who checks online, there is sufficient evidence online to demonstrate that Fairfield was a political ward in Glasgow (Fairfield (Ward 30)), and that it did once exist. See: here; here, here, here, and many other places (including 35 mentions in this PhD thesis). That said, I've do not know this part of the UK at all, unlike the nom, but looking at these old maps from 1885-1903 on the National archive of Scotland website, there seems to be no physical 'place' on the ground labelled as Fairfield. Thus a redirect to the parliamentary constituency which Fairfield was merged into seems more appropriate than deletion. I therefore don't think that redirecting to Govan is the right approach (and it's just possible that, with a lot of further research, a redirect to Glasgow Craigton (UK Parliament constituency) could prove to be a better target.) Note that Fairfield (UK Parliament constituency) already exists, but is the name of a ward in Liverpool - a very long way away!) Nick Moyes (talk) 20:48, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Govan Also see Moorepark, Glasgow, Sandyford, Glasgow, and other articles by this author. While it might have used to be a constituency, I still think just redirecting to the 'place' is the most natural. — Insertcleverphrasehere ^{(or here)}_{(click me!)} 21:41, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The question we need to address is whether it is actually "a place". That will determine the target of the redirect.Nick Moyes (talk) 22:10, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I think Glasgow Govan (UK Parliament constituency) is a pretty good shout. I'll admit to ignorance of the Fairfield ward, which has some famous names as representatives and even an existing image on Commons; however, the ward map you kindly provided shows it covered a wide area, including several other neighbourhoods that developed subsequently, and the stub as created did not present as a historical place or a former ward but as a current neighbourhood, and as with the other nominated articles from the last 48 hours, the creator has unfortunately submitted an article with very little information, certainly in good faith, but this has required others to scramble about finding evidence to justify their existence or otherwise, when that should have been done before the article was published. Getting back to the point, I would suggest that Govan (ward) could also be a possible redirect option as this is the equivalent level of government covering the area, although this entity was only created in 2007. Aaarg I can't find any maps online to confirm where Craigton constituency ended and Govan constituency began in the relevant era, although my hunch would still be Govan covering it as the shipyard is pretty close to the centre of the place, and that's probably why a more identifiable Fairfield community didn't endure despite being the most famous local name: it was too close to the heart of Govan for most people to refer to the streets as anything else. Half a mile west and it might well have been a surviving suburb between Govan and Renfrew. Crowsus (talk) 23:32, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

All current wards of Glasgow have articles; could this be made into an article about the ward? If it is redirected, it should be to the area or ward it is now part of, or to wards of Glasgow, as wards are primarily areas for which councillors are elected in local elections. Peter James (talk) 17:09, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.