Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Expulsion of Egyptian Jews (1956)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was KEEP - Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 18:27, 15 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Expulsion of Egyptian Jews (1956)[edit]

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Fails WP:V and WP:N as described in detail at the talk page 3 weeks ago. Notified creator here at the same time but no response. The issues are described in detail at the talk page, but in summary, every single one of the six sentences purporting to relate directly to the title of the article is factually incorrect, the relevant parts of the key source are questionable anyway because they are copied verbatim from a political advocacy organisation, the expulsion of Jews was an integral part of a wider set of expulsions post the Suez Crises and there are no WP:RS anywhere which focus primarily on any of these expulsions (where information is available it is presented in a tangential fashion). The solution for this article is simply to improve the sourcing at Suez_Crisis#Egypt_2. Oncenawhile (talk) 07:19, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawn by nominator per WP:WDAFD. No support for proposal, and IZAK's interpretation is a reasonable compromise. I will leave for others to close. Oncenawhile (talk) 07:00, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Egypt-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:06, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:06, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:06, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:06, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Proclamations declaring that "all Jews are Zionists and enemies of the state" as described in this source would support the claim that this is a particular event with specific relevance to Egyptian Jewry. Gilbert's text is one of many sources that cover the expulsions and come on top of other book-length coverage in The Dispersion of Egyptian Jewry and ample reliable and verifiable sources in newspapers and magazines. Specific issues regarding the content of the article should be addressed by editing the text and including additional sources. Alansohn (talk) 18:49, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have commented on Gilbert on the article talk page. On the book-length coverage, this refers to the 1948-67 Exodus, which we cover in detail here, not specifically to the 1956 expulsions as your comment seems to suggest. Beinin, Kremer, and Laskier, the three specialist authors on the broader subject, touch only lightly on the 1956 expulsions of Jews, without in my opinion enough detail to justify a whole article focused on it. For the avoidance of doubt, I think this subject should be covered in wikipedia, but I don't see the justification for it being more than a subsegment of the three articles where we already cover it (here, here, and here). From what i have read I don't think there will never be enough detail available to create a meaningful length article, and this article is all wrong so would need a complete overhaul anyway. Oncenawhile (talk) 09:26, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Oncenawhile: You are now changing your tune that only reflects that you did not think this nomination through thoroughly enough because if, as you now claim, you now feel that this topic should or could become part of any one of: Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries#Egypt 2, or History of the Jews in Egypt#After the foundation of Israel in 1948, or Suez Crisis#Egypt 2 then you should have either opened a discussion on a talk page about "merging" the articles or the content, or suggested in this nomination that the article be "merged and redirected" (as I have suggested below, while also keeping all good content) but instead you opted to throw out the baby with the bathwater and to solve a relatively minor editorial issue with the proverbial dynamite of WP:TNT, that is just too extreme as a solution in this particular case. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 19:53, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi IZAK, thanks as always for your thoughtful and content-rich posts. I am ok with your suggestion, and you are right that I didn't explain myself properly. The reason i came to afd is that I believe that there is nothing in this article which is not already covered elsewhere (except of course the parts that are simply made up / wrong, obviously). I am happy to be proven wrong, and am fine with your proposal below re the destination for the M&R. Oncenawhile (talk) 20:42, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Oncenawhile: Thank you for your kind comments and agreeing that "Merge and Redirect to History of the Jews in Egypt#After the foundation of Israel in 1948 and retain all relevant material" is a good idea. I just feel that stopping at "1956" is odd because it's also about what happened in 1955, 1954, etc counting backwards in years to 1948 and before that to WWII and the birth of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt under a lot of Nazi influences, and on to 1957, 1958, 1959 etc going forward in years to the present actually, with the few remaining Jews and Israelis (diplomats, tourists) also facing this issue still in Egypt every day if they find themselves there. Just looks like a bit of a WP:CONTENTFORK desperation at work all for very good reasons mind you. It's a poorly thought out title and somewhat arbitrary which is why I suggest it be made part of a "wider set of circumstances/years". But now that this AfD is underway I am not sure what the closing procedure is or should be, but you as the nominator must have some say here. Feel free to ask what to do next. Thanks again, IZAK (talk) 21:03, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep There are issues on the talkpage. The only posts there are from the nominator. I think the nominator would do well to ask for comments on the talkpage before coming to the one-sided conclusion that the article must be deleted. Debresser (talk) 19:58, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and Redirect to History of the Jews in Egypt#After the foundation of Israel in 1948 and retain all relevant material as this phenomenon is part of a tide of anti-Jewish policies that saw the Egyptian Jewish community of 75,000+ Jews face waves of antisemitism, discriminatory laws and waves of cruel government laws and decrees to push them out. There is already mention of the events prior to and post 1956 in the History of the Jews in Egypt#After the foundation of Israel in 1948 so some sections in this article are a bit of a duplicate. But it does break new ground and cites WP:N and WP:RS and WP:V sources, and if it is kept it should and can be expanded and fit in with other topics like this to be found in Category:Expulsions of Jews. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 19:41, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/redirect -- This article is largely based on a single scholarly article. I do not think it adds enoughto the potential merge target to warrant its survival as a separate article. Peterkingiron (talk) 19:15, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -as an Israeli and a Jew I had seen this story of expulsion many times on History books, TV and radio, and can say it is a very important piece of history.--Midrashah (talk) 14:06, 15 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.