Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Evans, Novak, Hunt & Shields

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus and discussion has stalled, indicating none is forthcoming. Star Mississippi 01:52, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Evans, Novak, Hunt & Shields

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Searched all over for sources and found none. The article doesn't even state when the show started or ended!

First off, the show doesn't even have an IMDb page, which is very telling. Despite the show having supposedly been on the air since the 1980s, newspapers.com has no hits prior to 1998. Searching for just "Evans and Novak" turned up nothing but false positives for unrelated works in which Rowland Evans and Robert Novak were hosted, as well as another article saying that "Evans and Novak" became "The Novak Zone" in 2006 -- itself contradicting the supposed end-date of 2002.

The only other results I got for the article as titled were CNN transcripts, citations of the same in unrelated works, and obituaries of Rowland Evans. The current footnote to the Los Angeles Times is broken, and was only repaired after it went 404, making me unable to determine what coverage (if any) it actually had.

Google Books gives tons of hits for the title, but every single one of them is some one-sentence passing mention along the lines of "X said Y on ENHS", "X appeared on ENHS", or a footnote within the book citing a quote from an episode. As AFDs such as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jesus Freak Hideout (4th nomination) prove, "a source can be reliable without being notable".

I'm not instantly expecting some CNN show to have Featured Article level of coverage. But for a show that was supposedly on the air for 20 years to be shrouded in such mystery that even its start and end dates are completely unknown by reliable sources -- that is a massive red flag. I'm willing to be proven wrong in this AFD, though. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 16:27, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 16:27, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I checked on the wayback machine and 'Novak, Hunt & Shields' canceled - Los Angeles Times (archive.org) still does not give a start date or anything. Also, when i searched "Evans, Novak, Hunt & Shields" on the internet archives, most of the results were porn sites, except for a CNN site which did not even reference the show, so delete. Kadermonkey the monkey (talk) 17:01, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:53, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well you're not going to get hits prior to 1998 for a show that didn't have Hunt and Shields before 1998. It was "Evans & Novak" from 1982 to 1998. Evans stopped being in it in 2001, and Hunt and Shields in 2002. Uncle G (talk) 19:20, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Brooks, Tim; Marsh, Earle (2003). "Evans & Novak". The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network and Cable TV Shows, 1946-present. Ballantine Books. p. 369. ISBN 9780345455420.
- As I pointed out though, searching for just "Evans and Novak" gave no better sourcing and in fact only polluted the search results with a myriad of false positives. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:06, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Did it turn up the source that you just commented on top of? ☺ Uncle G (talk) 21:42, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    My mistake, I didn't see that you found that. I just found it on GBooks and it's a single paragraph that takes up less than 1/6 of a page. Hardly WP:SIGCOV if you ask me. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:52, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Subject currently fails WP:GNG. This seems odd because I do remember it and the talking heads were well known figures in that profession. But I can't find enough to ring the WP:N bell. Will happily reconsider if more extensive coverage can be found. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:38, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of programs broadcast by CNN#Former programming, where an equivalent description of the program already exists/WP:CHEAP. Same for the redirect Evans & Novak (we really don't need an RfD on that, I assume). One of the big problems for this show is that since it existed pre-TVNewser, the only coverage it usually got was of the 'so-and-so guests will be on' mention in some place like the Washington Post calling out weekend political talk show guests in agate, which wouldn't be a real source for anything outside guest appearances, along with said archived transcripts on CNN.com (which only go back to 1/1/2000, though). (Nate • (chatter) 04:18, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Here is an David Zurawik obituary for Novak from The Baltimore Sun which lays out Novak's CNN career, which may help to establish the timeline of the series (including its time as The Novak Zone). Nate • (chatter) 21:39, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I'm finding numerous obituaries for Rowland Evans. The one in the LA Times (ProQuest 421771540) talks extensively about the show. There's a lot more in Proquest - for example ProQuest 280644965. Even if not notable, why would this automatically a redirect to List of programs broadcast by CNN#Former programming. Nfitz (talk) 01:19, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the ProQuest mentions seem to be trivial name-drops at best, such as the one you cited. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 22:07, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 00:04, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Modussiccandi (talk) 07:49, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.