Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eric Riggins Jr.

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. There are three Keeps and five deletes here, but even one of the Keeps suggests that the article does not actually claim any notability, whilst another one does not provide any reason for keeping. On the deletion side, whilst WP:PROMOTION is a reason for deletion, the article appears to be written fairly neutrally; it is notability and sourcing that are the issues here. Given that, deletion is clearly indicated. Black Kite (t) (c) 10:22, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Eric Riggins Jr.[edit]

Eric Riggins Jr. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Non-notable participant in a non-notable league of motorsport. Drmies (talk) 17:20, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep: "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article..."Significant coverage" means that sources address the subject directly in detail, so no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability. I am the articles creator. The sources given for the article seem to stand up to Wikipedia's Notability policy to me. On what grounds do you base your claim of non-notability? Alexiariggins (talk) 18:36, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • First of all, what is USCS? Is that even a notable division/league/whatever? Second, all but one of the references are from United Speed Contest Sanction press release--and that is not a reliable source, pure and simple, certainly not of the kind that would confer notability on the topics they treat. Drmies (talk) 20:34, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, per WP:PROMOTION. - DonCalo (talk) 21:05, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. LadyofShalott 03:20, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment More coverage on Riggins here [1] [2] [3]. USCS described as a popular series in this article. It's obviouly not Formula 1, but it's not pinky wrestling either. Tigerboy1966 (talk) 06:03, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's useful. At least those links look more reliable than what the article has to offer right now--but I cannot easily see that Race Week Illustrated would count as a reliable source. Can you confirm that, maybe with a question on the reliable sources noticeboard, or some opinion from the relevant WikiProject? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 14:20, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment More coverage on Riggins here.[1][2][3] If you're concerned about what the United Speed Contest Sanction is, then research it and figure it out for yourself. It's been around for years, is sponsored by some of the top open wheel dirt racing manufactures, and travels all up and down the East coast. It's a legitimate touring series. Your personal ignorance on a subject/series shouldn't constitute immediate deletion. Alexiariggins (talk) 14:11, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I guess you were unable to put that in a nice way. Maybe you should follow your own cue and write that article. Drmies (talk) 14:18, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just straight forward. There doesn't have to be an article on the United Speed Contest Sanction in Wikipedia for the series to be legitimized. Alexiariggins (talk) 15:03, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep. There are many arguments for a delete. The references in the article need to be improved -currently, notability is not asserted. There's not one wikilink in the article to another driver, team, event or the sport in general. This doesn't prove a lack of notability, but it does suggest it. The driver won a lot of titles - but they're in a non-notable karting series - he's a rookie in this series. Still, Tigerboy1966 persuades me somewhat re tagging. The article's not too bad for npov - what tags, if any, would be applied? {{refimprove}}, I assume? I'd rather give this a little time to see if it can meet the standards comprehensively - it's not a clear delete re notability. Sorry for being so unhelpfully vague. Colonel Tom 10:07, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - I'm all for as many motorsports series and their drivers being included as possible, but here...well, let's look at the facts. In general, when it comes to sports in Wikipedia, somebody who has competed at the highest level of their sport in their country is considered to be notable. Unfortunatly the USCS isn't the highest level of sprint car racing in the United States - that would be the World of Outlaws. Now, not having competed at the highest level doesn't automatically make you not notable - depending on what you've done at the lower levels of the sport. For motorsport, winning a championship in a lower series is notable - but the only championships here are in very low-level series, local series and go-karts. A national World Karting Association championship or three sounds good - but what series? A couple of Manufacturers' Cup championships might tip him over the edge, but the article doesn't say, and a Google for '"Eric Riggins" "World Karting Association" -wiki' turns up a grand total of 8 hits; I'd suspect it's the Speedway Pavement series the championships were run in, which is the racing equivilant of winning the summer baseball league at your local community park. I started out writing this as "weak delete", but now I've swung to a firm "delete" - without prejudice of recreation, of course, should he move up to WoO level and start winning. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:06, 13 October 2011

(UTC)

  • Comment In response to the USCS not being the highest level of sprint car racing in the US, you're correct. However, he competes with a 360 cubic inch motor, not a 410, which is the motor run in WoO. 360's are a class all their own. There are several 360 touring series in the US, but USCS is arguably the largest 360 touring series in the southeast. That said, as stated in the article, He was Rookie of the Year in 2010, and has won a couple races so far in 2011. Whether these things void his notability in the sport of 360 sprint cars or not...I'm not sure. Which, I suppose is why we're having this discussion. In regards to your question about WKA national championships, there were two. Each came from the World Karting Association's Speedway Dirt Series which was always widely recognized as their largest national series in terms of kart counts and entries in the karting community (until the past few years, when kart counts began to drop drastically due to economy and mishandling of the series). Only the best of the best in dirt oval karting hold Speedway Dirt national championships. This can be verified by looking thru the season archives in the WKA's Online Awards Room. While the WKA does a stellar job of keeping record of past national championships, they do an extremely poor job of preserving WKA state championships, Grand National wins, and Daytona wins...all of which are also considered crown jewels in the sport. He has the jackets, rings, eagles, and cups to back up his dominance as a Jr. driver in dirt oval go karting, but they're almost impossible to cite. Hence m1any of the specific championships/wins being excluded from the karting portion of the article. As I've already stated, I'm the articles author. I'm new to article writing/editing on wikipedia, and of course my wish is to adhere to the guidelines uphold the integrity of the encyclopedia. I'm working to improve it by adding additional information, and better citations. If this article violates any of those guidelines, I'll be the first to move to remove it. But as of right now, it seems like one giant grey area. Alexiariggins (talk) 17:46, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Alpha_Quadrant (talk) 00:58, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Wikipedia is not a soapbox or means of promotion. Press releases are not independent reliable sources. Awards are minor, league is minor. Lacks the appropriate coverage. duffbeerforme (talk) 03:31, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. The Core issue is that the series not not appear to be notable as per our guidelines. Sources and media coverage that discussed the series itself (and that were not press releases) would go a long way to showing the series to be notable. Once there, an article on Eric Riggins Jr., if properly sourced, would be a simple exercise - an award-winning driver in a notable series. But first things first. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 14:34, 17 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete There has been two weeks to do something to the article to make claims to notability based on actual independent reliable sources. I don't think the sources mentioned in this AfD are sufficiently reliable to confer notability on the subject anyway. --Mkativerata (talk) 23:17, 22 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
  1. ^ Elam, Jack. "DOBMEIER, RIGGINS, AND TURPEN SCORE WINS FOR J&J".
  2. ^ Beck, Rhonda (September 29, 2011). "USCS returns to Carolina Speedway - Youth rules during USCS duels at Carolina Speedway Read more:". Gaston Gazette. Retrieved 6 October 2011.
  3. ^ Beck, Rhonda (October 4, 2011). "Youth rules during USCS duels at Carolina Speedway". Gaston Gazette. Retrieved 6 October 2011.
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