Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elias Plagianos
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus defaulting to Keep and w/o prejudice to a future renomination. Ad Orientem (talk) 01:48, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
Elias Plagianos[edit]
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- Elias Plagianos (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Fails WP:GNG. Only sources per Google are [1], IMDb, trivial mention here (mostly about the film and not him, and the Winter Film Awards itself doesn't have an article here), LinkedIn, Facebook, and a similar hodgepodge of unsuitable sources. It also seems to fail WP:NFILM for the same reasons. FWIW, it was created by a WP:SPA (very likely a conflict of interest given that the user is named Espfilms, but I still want to assume good faith for now), is a dead end, and is de facto an orphan since only the talk page and a redirect from one of his films link to it. John M Wolfson (talk) 14:07, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 17:44, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 17:44, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 17:44, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 17:44, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
- Delete Cannot find any evidence to support the first Ref claim that Plagianos' film The Crimson Mask "ha[s] managed to win over 35 [!!!] awards at the 2010 Cannes Film Festival". ——Chalk19 (talk) 08:18, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (talk) 19:37, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (talk) 19:37, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
Keep. There is sufficient coverage of his work and awards. For news, and books. Caballero/Historiador ⎌ 20:32, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
- Most of those sources are press releases and blogs, which are not suitable for establishing notability due to lack of independence and reliability, respectively. The one otherwise-notable source mentions him only in passing and for just one of his works. --John M Wolfson (talk) 17:12, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- Plus Newsday (here) and Broadway Worldwide (here and here), and you cannot totally dismiss Newswire (here and here), which has been used abundantly in Wikipedia (here). There is no doubt we are dealing with a director of Indie films and series, which by mainstream measures, will have its main outlets in local or new review sites (there has been a discussion on this topic in RSN before). So, for news about this director and his work, you will see it in Indyred and Rainer.film, for example. Regardless of everything else discussed here, we cannot simply ignore the bunch of awards Plagianos' work has received, particularly with "Shoot me nicely." Some of these are Manchester Film Festival (for its usage in Wikipedia see here), Winter Film Award (for its usage in WP see here) , Barcelona Film Festival (for WP use here, Berry won it the year before), and many more. They are particularly notable for an indie film. Caballero/Historiador ⎌ 20:13, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- The Newsday article doesn't mention him at all and his work only in passing. The Broadway World articles likewise give but passing reference to him and his work. Of the 21 articles that cite Newswire I sampled ~10 of them and found only one that used it to establish notability, and that article itself is rather sketchy IMO. In any case, I remain fully unconvinced that he passes GNG or WP:AUTHOR. If, however, there are as many accolades towards a specific film of his as is claimed such that it passed WP:FILM (not particularly likely IMO since the WFA only gets mentioned 13 times in passing and the MFA 20, ditto), then perhaps an article should be created on that film and this could be redirected thereto. --John M Wolfson (talk) 21:27, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- @John M Wolfson: Thanks for taking the time to discuss the evidence. Your last comments show glimpses of hope. We may be making progress and not just moving in circles. You have just affirmed my reasons for notability for a director of indie films. Perhaps it is not enough for your standards, but enough for me, particularly in this case. What you see as "passing," I may see it as "reference." What you perceive as "sketchy," I perceive it as "sufficient." The awards and praises to his films have already made him notable WP:N in my books. Hopefully this is more than just the same conflict between deleting and keeping. Caballero/Historiador ⎌ 04:55, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- While I do agree that barely notable is still notable, I still fail to see how an article for Plagianos himself and not one of his works such as the Crimson Mask is even barely notable. While references are good for notability, they have to be more than "trivial mentions" per the GNG. Pursuant to the spirit of notability I tried looking around and couldn't any information on his date of birth, a rather basic biographical detail. In any case we might be at an impasse, so I hope we get more people into this discussion. --John M Wolfson (talk) 21:30, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- @John M Wolfson: Progress indeed. If you could find a way to merge this article's information into one about his work(s), I would gladly support it. I just don't think that the data here should be lost. Caballero/Historiador ⎌ 00:40, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
- That can maybe work, but I think we'll have to get more consensus before we decide what exactly to do with this. --John M Wolfson (talk) 02:28, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
- @John M Wolfson: Progress indeed. If you could find a way to merge this article's information into one about his work(s), I would gladly support it. I just don't think that the data here should be lost. Caballero/Historiador ⎌ 00:40, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
- While I do agree that barely notable is still notable, I still fail to see how an article for Plagianos himself and not one of his works such as the Crimson Mask is even barely notable. While references are good for notability, they have to be more than "trivial mentions" per the GNG. Pursuant to the spirit of notability I tried looking around and couldn't any information on his date of birth, a rather basic biographical detail. In any case we might be at an impasse, so I hope we get more people into this discussion. --John M Wolfson (talk) 21:30, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- @John M Wolfson: Thanks for taking the time to discuss the evidence. Your last comments show glimpses of hope. We may be making progress and not just moving in circles. You have just affirmed my reasons for notability for a director of indie films. Perhaps it is not enough for your standards, but enough for me, particularly in this case. What you see as "passing," I may see it as "reference." What you perceive as "sketchy," I perceive it as "sufficient." The awards and praises to his films have already made him notable WP:N in my books. Hopefully this is more than just the same conflict between deleting and keeping. Caballero/Historiador ⎌ 04:55, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- The Newsday article doesn't mention him at all and his work only in passing. The Broadway World articles likewise give but passing reference to him and his work. Of the 21 articles that cite Newswire I sampled ~10 of them and found only one that used it to establish notability, and that article itself is rather sketchy IMO. In any case, I remain fully unconvinced that he passes GNG or WP:AUTHOR. If, however, there are as many accolades towards a specific film of his as is claimed such that it passed WP:FILM (not particularly likely IMO since the WFA only gets mentioned 13 times in passing and the MFA 20, ditto), then perhaps an article should be created on that film and this could be redirected thereto. --John M Wolfson (talk) 21:27, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- Plus Newsday (here) and Broadway Worldwide (here and here), and you cannot totally dismiss Newswire (here and here), which has been used abundantly in Wikipedia (here). There is no doubt we are dealing with a director of Indie films and series, which by mainstream measures, will have its main outlets in local or new review sites (there has been a discussion on this topic in RSN before). So, for news about this director and his work, you will see it in Indyred and Rainer.film, for example. Regardless of everything else discussed here, we cannot simply ignore the bunch of awards Plagianos' work has received, particularly with "Shoot me nicely." Some of these are Manchester Film Festival (for its usage in Wikipedia see here), Winter Film Award (for its usage in WP see here) , Barcelona Film Festival (for WP use here, Berry won it the year before), and many more. They are particularly notable for an indie film. Caballero/Historiador ⎌ 20:13, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 14:26, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 14:26, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.