Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elephant's foot umbrella stand

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 10:05, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Elephant's foot umbrella stand

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I'm unable to find any evidence of this game existing under this name, from a search online. There are plenty of "8 Word-Based Parlour Games and How to Play Them" listicles, but none of them pre-date the 2005 creation of this article. A Google search for "elephant's foot umbrella stand" game restricted to pre-2005 results returns only one result, which uses the terms unrelatedly.

Checking word game reference books (Everyman's Word Games and The Penguin Book of Word Games) I can't find anything quite like it, either: there are plenty of games where players recite things alphabetically ("I went to the shop and I bought an apple and a banana..."), but nothing where the advancing letter progresses through a secret phrase like this. Lord Belbury (talk) 09:53, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 10:06, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete (Alternatively, Redirect to Parlour game or Umbrella stand) I found a mention in The Telegraph (granted, it's post-2005) that starts with You know this one, indicating that whether or not the game has existed for a while, a reputable newspaper feels their readers would know the game. The rules listed in The Telegraph seem to be about a different game and I found no other reliable mentions in this context, meaning it fails GNG. The vast majority of mentions I found were in relation to 'umbrella stands' themselves, like this cartoon, but there was no significant coverage. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:13, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I get the sense that a lot of journalists looked at Wikipedia's scant parlour game article, which lists this and not many others, when meeting a deadline. I guess it's out there now whatever the origin, though. Suggest merging to I packed my bag (which I've only just noticed existing), for being the generic memory game of this type. --Lord Belbury (talk) 13:45, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't personally think the games are similar enough to justify a merge there, maybe all of the stub parlor games could be merged to a 'list of Parlor games'? Best, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:09, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As it's written, Elephant's Foot Umbrella Stand is identical to the alphabetical version of "I Packed My Bag" except instead of following A-B-C-... (and knowing this) you're following E-L-E-... (but have to work this out). They both have the same rule about correctly repeating all the previous objects. --Lord Belbury (talk) 14:43, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but there's no point in merging the completely unsourced article, and The Telegraph (only RS I could find) lays out different rules for the game. I'd support a merge if there was content worth merging. Best, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 16:43, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sneaking past the Telegraph paywall, they describe it as guessing a secret rule rather than guessing the E-L-E-... sequence, but otherwise it sounds like a memory list game ("and then each player tries to add to the list"). If it's just a game of naming things which do or do not fit a rule, there's no need to keep track of a "list". Still seems mergeable to me. Am also amazed there's no apparent writeup of the basic "name a thing that fits or doesn't fit a rule" game (which would be an equally mergeable target), I'll get onto that. --Lord Belbury (talk) 17:01, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Well, the Telegraph is a reliable source, but it sounds as if the content of the article is mostly WP:OR as it doesn't match the source. I think we should merge the Telegraph citation (I've put it in the article) with a very brief description per Lord Belbury just above, to Parlour game or a similar article. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:06, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Surely anyone entering this title is more likely to be looking for content about umbrella stands made from elephants' feet than about a parlour game? Phil Bridger (talk) 10:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep it apparently exists, and this article explains the reason it's called elephant's foot. [[1]] There doesn't seem to be anywhere appropriate to merge this. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 19:33, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for failing WP:GNG above all. One passing mention in a news article does not demonstrate notability. It's far WP:TOOSOON. Nothing to merge it to and, as pointed out above, a reader is much more likely to be looking for an actual umbrella stand than this neologism. Ifnord (talk) 20:14, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz ^Humbug! 17:50, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

deletegiven the lack of prior sources. The Telegraph reference is far too recent to believe that it is independent of our text. Mangoe (talk) 20:58, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete agree with Mangoe that the telegraph reference may be circular. Awbfiend (talk) 19:11, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per the nom's good research. --Lockley (talk) 00:55, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.