Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/East Cobb, Georgia
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Ron Ritzman (talk) 04:02, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- East Cobb, Georgia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)
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Article discusses something that doesn't really exist. It proposes the existence of an "unincorporated city" (note that this alone makes it suspect, since US cities are always incorporated) whose existence isn't confirmed either by the US Postal Service or by the GNIS. Given its stated location in eastern Cobb County, Georgia, I believe that this is a neologism for a region of the county, rather than a community. The only source actually on the article refers to an "East Cobb Station"; this says nothing about the existence of East Cobb as a community, and it surely refers to the station that serves the eastern part of Cobb County. Nyttend (talk) 01:12, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - East Cobb is an unincorporated community, but an identifiable community nonetheless. It just happens to have an awkward name. While "east Cobb" could also refer to the eastern side of the County, it is clear when one says "East Cobb" they are referring to the community. This is proved by the various names in private developments and governmental facilities - a public library, a US Post Office Branch, etc. If the area was to incorporate, there is no doubt it would form as the City of East Cobb. The same cannot be said for any other "directional reference" in the Metro. East Cobb is truly an exception, and allowing it to remain will not encourage a "North Gwinnett, Georgia", "South Dekalb, Georgia", etc.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:East_Cobb" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmann1988 (talk • contribs) 01:23, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - It seems that East Cobb sees itself as a city, whether it is formally incorporated or not (see: CITY OF EAST COBB WEBSITE. That's good enough for per se notability in my book... There are thousands of unincorporated villages and small towns on WP, whether or not a town is formally incorporated isn't decisive in this regard. —Carrite, Sept. 30, 2010.
- Do you have any independent reliable sources that speak of this being a community rather than just eastern Cobb County? No evidence has been presented that it is commonly considered an actual populated place; a self-published website could be simply something that a few local residents set up. Nyttend (talk) 03:34, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
this is from Realty Times, which is pretty reliable. And yes it is definitely an actual populated place - its called a suburb. Maybe you should just fly down to Atlanta and see for yourself. Sheesh.
- Kindly lay off on the personal attacks. Nyttend (talk) 13:29, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - I just want to put on the record that I'm not the one that made the previous snooty unsigned comment. I tried to find out who did in the edit log but haven't been able to figure that out... —Carrite, Oct. 1, 2010.
- Kindly lay off on the personal attacks. Nyttend (talk) 13:29, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Getting to the meat of the unsigned poster's link, here's a quote that may be of service: Say Realtors Sandy and Jim Koza, "Close-in East Cobb is known for its convenience, excellent schools and terrific shopping. Located in Cobb County East of I-75, East Cobb is a terrific place to live. A well-established area, you will find many wonderful swim/tennis communities throughout the area and golf communities too. There are also quite a number of older subdivisions where you can find nice homes on larger lots. As popular as East Cobb is, the area has long been well built-out." This would make East Cobb an unincorporated suburb of Atlanta. I'm not sure what Wikipedia standard practice is for such entities... —Carrite, Oct. 1, 2010.
- It still doesn't say that it's what the Census Bureau calls a populated place. Of course we don't need the reliable source to say "It fits the Census Bureau definition of a 'populated place'", but we need evidence for the existence of such a thing. Nyttend (talk) 18:08, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Please link to the Wikipedia requirement that unincorporated communities must be defined as a populated place to have a page.--Mmann1988 (talk) 18:53, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Verifiable unincorporated community, despite not being in the GNIS; in addition to the above sources, this book gives it a section. TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 07:46, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- As the source says, communities are located within it — there are settlements within it such as Roswell. Moreover, the source contrasts it with "west Cobb" — that's likewise an area of the county. Nyttend (talk) 18:08, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Please read the source carefully. The community is treated as a proper noun (place) and is capitalized as East Cobb. On the other hand, west Cobb is simply referring to the western end of the county, and is NOT capitalized as a proper noun. Roswell, an incorporated city, is not even in the same county as East Cobb, thus it cannot be located within the East Cobb community. No incorporated city lies within the East Cobb community, which proves its existence. If you live in an incorporated city, you cannot live in East Cobb the community.--Mmann1988 (talk) 18:49, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm just going by the source. Nyttend (talk) 21:56, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Please read the source carefully. The community is treated as a proper noun (place) and is capitalized as East Cobb. On the other hand, west Cobb is simply referring to the western end of the county, and is NOT capitalized as a proper noun. Roswell, an incorporated city, is not even in the same county as East Cobb, thus it cannot be located within the East Cobb community. No incorporated city lies within the East Cobb community, which proves its existence. If you live in an incorporated city, you cannot live in East Cobb the community.--Mmann1988 (talk) 18:49, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I cannot help but wonder if certain editors have made it their goal to make it hard for other editors to contribute. East Cobb has already more references to it than some cities. As a resident of Metro Atlanta, I can assure you that East Cobb refers to the community of East Cobb. Everyone knows it as such. It has libraries, schools, and post offices named after it. Besides, there are hundreds of unincorporated communities in Metro Atlanta alone that are much less verifiable than East Cobb.--Mmann1988 (talk) 18:49, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- As I said before, lay off on the personal attacks. Nyttend (talk) 21:56, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- This is not a personal attack. We are allowed to speak on the motives of editors, something you have done yourself.--Mmann1988 (talk) 00:16, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Another comment - This link to the EAST COBB CIVIC ASSOCIATION is sort of ambiguous, speaking of "East Cobb" as a place to which one has moved, but referring to "communities" (plural) within it. So it's not really a city, but it's not a county and seems like a concrete and defined place with a sort of consciousness of itself a quasi-city way. Are there any other unincorporated urban communities (say in the Chicagoland area) from which we may draw precedent here? I'm still of the belief that this is a KEEP rather than a DELETE situation here, but I can see where the nominator is coming from... —Carrite, Oct. 1, 2010.
- Expanding this further, in Illinois it looks like they've got a structure called a "village," such as Oak Park, Illinois. Does anyone know (a) if these are incorporated; and (b) whether these structures are any way comparable to the East Cobb situation? —Carrite, Oct. 1, 2010.
- Actually, this line of thought is helpful. See Village: "A village is a clustered human settlement or community, larger than a hamlet with the population ranging from a few hundred to a few thousands (sometimes tens of thousands), Though often located in rural areas, the term urban village is also applied to certain urban neighbourhoods, such as the West Village in Manhattan, New York City and the Saifi Village in Beirut, Lebanon, as well as Hampstead Village in the London conurbation." As long as we can put OTHER STUFF hysterics aside for a moment and look at this from the standpoint of precedent, the West Village of NYC is considered worthy of an article, even though it is not in and of itself a city. It is a definable place, conscious of itself as a place, where people live. Whether East Cobb is an unicorporated city-in-the-making or an amalgam of several urban communities or neighborhoods seeing themselves as part of an entity called East Cobb, it still seems very comparable to me. As long as East Cobb sees itself as an entity and people see themselves as being from an entity called East Cobb — both pretty clearly true from the above-cited material — it would seem that precedent would indicate that the entity is inclusion-worthy. —Carrite, Oct. 1, 2010.
- Villages in Illinois are incorporated, and are rather similar to cities, so they are quite unrelated to East Cobb. Actually, there's not much in Illinois that can be compared to this, or much in other states for that matter; most counties don't have unincorporated sub-regions above the community level, and this isn't necessarily an unincorporated community. The other areas you mentioned are neighborhoods of incorporated places and are also an entirely different category. The closest thing I can think of to East Cobb would be large CDPs with their own neighborhoods, such as East Los Angeles, California or North Bethesda, though even those are both more recognized and more community-like than East Cobb. I still say it should be kept based on significant coverage. TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 00:00, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Georgia operates under a strong county system. Thus, the county, be default, provides every service cities do - fire, police, schools, garbage, etc. There are no villages or townships in Georgia, the only municipality is a city. This is an unincorporated community that just has not been given an official CDP resignation by the Census Bureau. The community has tried to get CDP status, but this is a lot harder than you would think.--Mmann1988 (talk) 00:16, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Villages in Illinois are incorporated, and are rather similar to cities, so they are quite unrelated to East Cobb. Actually, there's not much in Illinois that can be compared to this, or much in other states for that matter; most counties don't have unincorporated sub-regions above the community level, and this isn't necessarily an unincorporated community. The other areas you mentioned are neighborhoods of incorporated places and are also an entirely different category. The closest thing I can think of to East Cobb would be large CDPs with their own neighborhoods, such as East Los Angeles, California or North Bethesda, though even those are both more recognized and more community-like than East Cobb. I still say it should be kept based on significant coverage. TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 00:00, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually, this line of thought is helpful. See Village: "A village is a clustered human settlement or community, larger than a hamlet with the population ranging from a few hundred to a few thousands (sometimes tens of thousands), Though often located in rural areas, the term urban village is also applied to certain urban neighbourhoods, such as the West Village in Manhattan, New York City and the Saifi Village in Beirut, Lebanon, as well as Hampstead Village in the London conurbation." As long as we can put OTHER STUFF hysterics aside for a moment and look at this from the standpoint of precedent, the West Village of NYC is considered worthy of an article, even though it is not in and of itself a city. It is a definable place, conscious of itself as a place, where people live. Whether East Cobb is an unicorporated city-in-the-making or an amalgam of several urban communities or neighborhoods seeing themselves as part of an entity called East Cobb, it still seems very comparable to me. As long as East Cobb sees itself as an entity and people see themselves as being from an entity called East Cobb — both pretty clearly true from the above-cited material — it would seem that precedent would indicate that the entity is inclusion-worthy. —Carrite, Oct. 1, 2010.
- Expanding this further, in Illinois it looks like they've got a structure called a "village," such as Oak Park, Illinois. Does anyone know (a) if these are incorporated; and (b) whether these structures are any way comparable to the East Cobb situation? —Carrite, Oct. 1, 2010.
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Georgia (U.S. state)-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 02:16, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak keep. The book that TheCatalyst31 links seems to provides compelling evidence that this is considered a community in its own right rather than just an arbitrary area of the county. But the fact that none of the people listed in East Cobb's "notable residents" section are listed as being from East Cobb in their own articles (most simply say "born in Marietta") concerns me, as does the lack of a GNIS entry. 28bytes (talk) 15:17, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Above and beyond the inherent notability of populated places like this one, the article provides sources to support the claim of notability. Alansohn (talk) 12:57, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete.From what I can find out from one resident, it is directional, so technically there could be a North Cobb, South Cobb, West Cobb. Pretty much like any large place, but we probably don't want to multiply all place articles by five! Student7 (talk) 01:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- No, it isnt directional. I live in Metro Atlanta. East Cobb is the only one that actually designates a community. There is no community of "South Cobb", etc. Just because a community has an awkward, confusing, semi-contradictory name doesn't mean that it is not a notable community. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmann1988 (talk • contribs) 03:31, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.