Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Portland

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 20:44, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Portland[edit]

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Fails WP:ORG and WP:GNG. 2 of the 5 sources relate to a racial incident at the hotel. Other sources are mainly local as per WP:AUD. LibStar (talk) 06:38, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture, Business, and Oregon. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 09:21, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. There are refs but they are very small time and don't push this over GNG. Desertarun (talk) 11:57, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per GNG (disclaimer: creator). Yes, the article needs to be expanded and 2 of the 5 sources (at time of nomination) were about a racial incident. On the article's talk page, I've shared numerous sources about the incident (BBC News, The Guardian, The Independent, Essence, etc). Additionally, there have been other incidents and the hotel has been credited for helping develop the city's eastside. I've added many more sources to the article, including travel guides (Fodor's, Moon Publications) and other newspapers and magazines with reviews of the property. I've not even started with the Oregonian archives, which will surely yield many more returns. This entry should be expanded, not deleted. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:30, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I found, and added, a source indicating the hotel was the second-largest in the entire state in the 1980s, which makes it much more notable than the article's previous text on that point, that it was only "one of the five largest in Portland". I have also added several more newspaper articles as sources, most of which are specifically about this hotel. – SJ Morg (talk) 11:45, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your help and article improvements! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:14, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Since its nomination, this article's sourcing has been significantly improved, and it meets WP:NORG, thanks to WP:HEY efforts byAnother Believer and SJ Morg. — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 17:34, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This article has sources and is relatively well-written. However, it feels like the editors involved in this article have some relationship with the hotel. In addition, the majority of the sources that provide significant coverage are local which does not meet the standard for notability. Business Wire republishes press releases and, therefore, is not an independent source. The Ebony link is not significant coverage. So, the entire case to keep relies on whether or not an entry in a travel guidebook qualifies a hotel for notability. I think not as this is more of a directory listing than an actual article--and Wikipedia does not exist to duplicate content from travel guidebooks or other such directories. Yes, these books are qualified secondary sources but do not make something notable on their own. I suggest merging some of this content into DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel as this article is currently longer than the article about the entire chain. Rublamb (talk) 20:52, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Can you please not accuse me or User:SJ Morg of having "some relationship with the hotel"? That's not necessary. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 22:04, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Apologies. What I should have said was that sections of the article read as promotional. Rublamb (talk) 04:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome to identify specifically problematic text on the article's talk page. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:59, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 20:55, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The news event mentioned on the talk page is about this particular location, not the chain, and certainly meets requirements for widespread, major, independent coverage. Perhaps not the sort of coverage they want, but hey... Maury Markowitz (talk) 21:46, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The 2019 racial profiling incident is the last paragraph of the History section. Were you intending to !vote? — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 22:18, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Notability claimed as the (former) largest hotel in the state. Refs for that are independent although not online (newspaper.com's search is utterly useless). They are borderline local, but that alone seems to meet the bar for me. It's the several worldwide-noteworthy events that occurred that push it over. Maury Markowitz (talk) 23:42, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Sources do no have to be online; that is not a problem. The issue is that the article's significant coverage is local. Refering to WP:BRANCH, "As a general rule, the individual chapters of national and international organizations are usually not considered notable enough to warrant a separate article – unless they are substantially discussed by reliable independent sources that extend beyond the chapter's local area." Since we don't have substantial coverage outside of the hotel's area, it does not meet the standard for notability. Rublamb (talk) 04:20, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Rublamb, I encourage you to read The Oregonian article, which explains the paper's circulation exceeds the "local area", and meets the criteria for regional or statewide circulation. — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 09:35, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rublamb The paper is the largest in the state, and the second in Cascadia as a whole. Saying this is too local for NOTE is like saying we shouldn't use the Toronto Star as a source on anything that happened in Toronto. The copious numbers of mentions as far away as the UK meets the criterion for "reliable independent sources that extend beyond the chapter's local area". I reiterate my keep. Maury Markowitz (talk) 11:40, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Sourcing is there to pass GNG. Along with The Oregonian, The Columbian out of Washington State also had a few articles published[1][2]. Also found an AP article from when Red Lion bought them, that was published in other publications in WA[3] and OR[4]. WikiVirusC^(talk) 14:13, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Contributions by Another Believer and SJ Morg have significantly improved the quality and sourcing of the article since nomination. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 08:57, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Review of General Sources
Source	Significant?	Independent?	Reliable?	Secondary?	Reach	Pass/Fail	Notes
"38 Portland hotels that tell the Rose City's history". The Oregonian.	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Regional	P	More of this history should be added to the article if it is kept.
"Newest $40 million Red Lion largest hotel in Oregon". The Oregonian.	Might be significant but is potentially trivial coverage	yes	yes	yes	Regional	P/F	Per WP:CORPDEPTH: standard notices, brief announcements, and routine coverage of expansions, acquisitions, mergers, sales, or closure of the business is considered trivial
"List Leaders: Check in with Portland's 5 biggest hotels". Portland Business Journal.	No, fails under trivial coverage	yes	yes	yes	Regional	F	Per WP:CORPDEPTH: inclusion in lists of similar organizations, particularly in "best of", "top 100", "fastest growing" or similar lists is considered trivial
"6 Portland Hotels with Outdoor Pools for Your Summer Staycation". Portland Monthly.	No	yes	yes	yes	Local	F	Per WP:PRODUCTREV: Brief and routine reviews do not qualify as significant coverage. Per WP:CORPDEPTH: inclusion in lists of similar organizations, is considered trivial.
"Photo essay: Outdoor swimming pools, public and private". Oregon Business.	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Local	F	mentioned in one sentence
"Portland Sheraton Hotel Job Progresses". Mail Tribune. Medford, Oregon.	No,	Yes	Yes	Yes	Local but UPI	F	Per WP:CORPDEPTH: standard notices, brief announcements, and routine coverage of expansions, acquisitions, mergers, sales, or closure of the business is considered trivial
"Grand opening today, Sheraton-Portland Hotel". The Register-Guard. Eugene, Oregon.	No	No	No	No	Regional	F	Paid Advertisement
"Lloyd Corp. may change hotel firms". The Oregon Journal. p. 1.	Assume so, but falls under trivial	Yes	Yes	Yes	Regional	F	Per WP:CORPDEPTH: standard notices, brief announcements, and routine coverage of expansions, acquisitions, mergers, sales, or closure of the business is considered trivial
"Thunderbird–Red Lion buys Lloyd Sheraton". The Oregonian.	Assume so, but falls under trivial	Yes	Yes	Yes	Regional	F
"Red Lion Dining has arrived at Lloyd Center" (advertisement), in The Oregon Journal	No	No	No	No	statewide	F
"Red Lion considers 300 additional rooms". The Oregonian.	Assume so, but falls under trivial	Yes	Yes	Yes	Regional	F
"Doubletree To Pay $1.2 Billion For Red Lion". The Seattle Times.	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Out of state	F	Article is on the chain, not this specific hotel
"Downtown Red Lion Is Now Doubletree". The Spokesman-Review.	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Out of state	F	Per WP:CORPDEPTH: standard notices, brief announcements, and routine coverage of expansions, acquisitions, mergers, sales, or closure of the business is considered trivial
"Last of Red Lion Inns' holdings to be sold to Ohio lodging company". The Columbian.	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Out of state	F	Article is on the chain, not this specific hotel
"DoubleTree by Hilton Introduces New Global Brand Identity, Creating One of Biggest Hotel Groups". Business Wire.	No	No	No	Yes	National	F	Article is on chain, not this hotel; Business Wire published press releases. See WP:ORGIND
"Washington man arraigned in homicide at Portland's Doubletree Hotel". The Oregonian.	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Regional	F	Articles are about a crime at this location, not the hotel itself. See WP:INHERITORG
"Family suing Hilton hotel group, Backpage.com for enabling prostitution, daughter's murder". Statesman Journal.	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Local	F
"Murder victim's family sues hotel chain after Portland killing". KATU.	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Local	F
"Portland's outdoor hotel pools, ranked". The Oregonian	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Regional	F	Per WP:CORPDEPTH: inclusion in lists of similar organizations, particularly in "best of", "top 100", "fastest growing" or similar lists is considered trivial
Fodor's Pacific Northwest: with Oregon, Washington & Vancouver. Fodor's Travel.	No	Assumed, but not always	Yes	Yes	International	F	Per WP:PRODUCTREV: Brief and routine reviews do not qualify as significant coverage. Also, some of this content is routinely provided by the subject or its employee. See WP:ORGIND
Fodor's Oregon. Fodor's Travel.	No	Assumed, but not always	Yes	Yes	International	F
. "DoubleTree by Hilton–Portland". Fodor's. Archived	Possibly	Assumed, but not always	Yes	Yes	International	F
Moon Portland. Avalon Publishing.	No	Assumed, but not always	Yes	Yes	International	F
Number of significant sources						1 (or 2)	both are from The Oregonian

**Review of Sources for Racist Incident**
Source	Significant?	Independent?	Reliable?	Secondary?	Reach	Pass/Fail	Notes
"Portland hotel calls police on black guest talking to his mom on phone". KGW.	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Local	F	Solid source, but too local to prove notablity
"$10M lawsuit claims racial profiling at DoubleTree hotel". Portland Tribune	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Local	F	Solid source, but too local to prove notablity
"Black Guest Kicked Out Of Portland DoubleTree In 2018 Sues Hotel For $10 Million". Oregon Public Broadcasting.	Yes for the incident	Yes	Yes	Yes	Statewide	P
"Tina Gordon on Making 'Praise This' Not Too 'Preachy'". Essence	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	National	F	Linked article does not mention the hotel
"DoubleTree Portland Hotel fires 2 workers for calling police on black hotel guest". ABC News	Yes for the incident	Yes	Yes	Yes	National	P
"Oregon hotel fires employees seen on video evicting black guest". The Washington Post.	Yes for the incident	Yes	Yes	Yes	National	P
"DoubleTree by Hilton scrambles to repair image after black guest is removed in Oregon". Los Angeles Times	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Out of state	F	Article focuses on the chain, not this specific hotel
Number of significant souces						3	Enough for notability if this event is the focus. seeWP:EVENT

Rublamb (talk) 22:10, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Way to ignore the other 30 sources shared on the talk page. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 23:01, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Reviewing existing souces is the typical starting point. The 30 potential sources are about the racist incident, the resulting court case, or the hotel chain's reponse to the incident. As indicated above, there already are enough sources to determine the notibility of this incident. However, the article in question is about the hotel rather than the racist incident, which is only featured in a couple of sentences. Rublamb (talk) 01:02, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep SIGCOV Lightburst (talk) 20:16, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.