Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Disconnected (song)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Withdrawn. Non-admin closure. DARTH PANDA ^duel 20:24, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Disconnected (song)[edit]

Non notable song. Fails WP:MUSIC. Contested redirect. Nouse4aname (talk) 17:05, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep There's no reason to delete it. "Disconnected" has been one of Face to Face's most famous songs as well as one of their biggest hits. Alex (talk) 17:36, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Non notable song by non-notable band. Does every garage "punk" band get a Wiki page for all their "music"? Good grief. Proxy User (talk) 17:43, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Hold on there, Proxy User. Face to Face is hardly a "garage punk" band that nobody's heard of. 12 years of activity, 8 albums, and a recent reunion tour...they've also played the Warped Tour and numerous other tours & festivals. They are comparable to Pennywise or NOFX and have shared labels & tours with both. "Disconnected" is their biggest "hit": It has appeared on 4 of their releases (1, 2, 3, 4 - twice on that last one), was released as a single and a music video and charted on Billboard. The article therefore passes WP:MUSIC as it is about a song that "ha[s] been ranked on national or significant music charts". Third-party sources therefore likely exist to support an article. They have to be found and added, of course, but AfD is not a forum for forcing improvements. I'm about as much of a deletionist as you're likely to find, but this happens to be a subject I know quite a bit about, and it passes the smell test. It's a legit single from a legit group and it charted. Frankly, I'm rather surprised that a user who's named themselves after No Use for a Name (a band which includes Face to Face's original bass player, who performed on "Disconnected", and are on the same record label that Face to Face used to be on) wouldn't already know that and would nominate this article for deletion. --IllaZilla (talk) 19:22, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep per IllaZillaKillaVanilla fee fi fo Filla. It charted, though not very highly, and there appear to be a couple sources. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 19:43, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks. My username derives from a Vandals song (first appeared on this album as "Ladykiller", then on this album as "(Illa Zilla) Lady Killa") in which the chorus is "Illa zilla laydkiller". I have no idea what it means, but I had it on the brain when I joined WP. Anyway, your comment gave me a chuckle. --IllaZilla (talk) 19:52, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. OK, so the song charted, that still doesn't mean there should be an article. WP:MUSIC states, "Notability aside, a separate article is only appropriate on a song when there is enough verifiable material to warrant a reasonably detailed article; articles unlikely ever to grow beyond stubs should be merged to articles about an artist or album." Will there ever be enough verifiable material to create anything more than a stub? No. Does charting automatically mean that a song should have a separate article - no. Further, personal opinion of a band should not cloud judgement on whether an article should exist or not. In this case, I still don't see any material that warrants a separate article that can't just be included on the album page(s). Nouse4aname (talk) 10:02, 26 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - The fact that it charted, and that the artist is significant, means that it's likely that there are third-party sources available around which to build an article. I'm currently writing my masters thesis on punk rock, with special attention to the 1990s punk revivial. I'm sure I can dig up some decent sources, and that this article can be expanded to beyond just a stub. Charting is, in fact, an indication of notability and a good indicator that a song might merit a separate article. Articles don't have to be large to be considered our best work (Troy McClure comes to mind), and this one can certainly be fleshed out to at least Start or B-class with just a minor rewrite and a couple of sources. Note also that the personal opinion here was by Proxy User, who wished to delete. I countered with evidence that his opinion was off the mark. But I digress...you say there will never be enough verifiable material to create anything more than a stub. I disagree. Have you tried looking for any source material? I'm going to give it a shot, as I believe such sources exist. But if you haven't tried then you shouldn't be AfD'ing it, since this is obviously a legit topic, and AfD is not a forum for forcing improvements. See WP:BEFORE: "Read the article to properly understand its topic. Note that stubs and imperfect articles are awaiting further development and so the potential of the topic should be considered." --IllaZilla (talk) 18:27, 26 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - Update: I've rewritten the article and added a number of references, cover image, changed the infobox, and added an audio sample. ~~Granted, except for Allmusic & Billboard the references are all primary sources at the moment, but it shouldn't be too difficult to track down a few more secondary ones~~. In any case it's clearly no longer a stub. --IllaZilla (talk) 23:36, 26 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - After a little more digging I was able to turn up some more secondary sources. I'm pretty confident we can now close this as a WP:SNOWBALL keep. --IllaZilla (talk) 04:27, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      - Wow! The article looks much, much better now, and 100 times better than probably 90% of other song articles out there. I did have a quick look for some material, but couldn't come up with much. I think you may be at a bit of an advantage here with the topic of you masters! My nomination was on the basis that I didn't think enough material would be available to build an article, after a quick search (evidently not thorough enough) I decided it was unlikely it could be improved. I was wrong. Good work IllaZilla. I'll be coming by your page first with an punk rock song stubs that I may be tempted to AfD to see what you can do to them! Nomination withdrawn Nouse4aname (talk) 08:35, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:27, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep - per IllaZilla. — neuro^(talk) 21:29, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Per IllaZilla. I may not have heard of them, but the sources provided do pass WP:MUSIC. Having never heard of the band isn't a reason to delete its article here. Beano (talk) 23:23, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.