Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Denis (YouTuber) (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Denis and Me. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:31, 2 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Denis (YouTuber)[edit]

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Looking per before, it hasn't receive a lot of coverage. thus, failing notability. GreenishPickle! (🔔) 15:23, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Video games, Entertainment, Internet, and Canada. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 16:02, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Denis and Me. While the show certainly passes the notability criteria for television shows, people are not automatically entitled to have Wikipedia articles just for being in television shows, and have to be shown to pass WP:GNG as individuals — but the sourcing here is in no way adequate, as it's based entirely on primary sources (his own YouTube videos, Twitter tweets) that aren't support for notability at all, unreliable sources (Distractify, Tuko) that don't count as GNG builders, and glancing namechecks of his existence in coverage of the show. That's not what it takes to make him independently notable enough to have his own standalone biographical article separately from the show. Bearcat (talk) 16:35, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Although it is indeed that it is his show that is notable, he himself is a youtuber that pioneered Roblox videos from around 2015. It is not like the TV show that brought him fame at all, it is more that his fame in Youtube caused him to make 'Denis and Me'. Also, if this article should really be removed, other Roblox Youtubers such as Megan Letter should be removed too, since they are also only a Youtuber that rose to fame from Roblox, and even more, they don't even have a TV show.

Another thing I want to point out is that this is probably only the early stage of this article. He has done much more than what this article tells others, and that the other things the Denis did (popularize many Roblox games such as 'Slide down 999,999,999 feet' type games and obby games that were popularized around many of 2016~2017, popularize the Business Cat (Catalog number 121389389 if interested on the product) as 'Sir-Meows-A-Lot' making the item very famous in the Roblox catalog, just to name a few examples) are still not shown in this article. Just because his importance is not shown yet in this article dosen't mean that this article should be deleted, and I think this article should just be far more improved to show the significance of Denis.
Lastly, the main reason there are many links to Denis' own YouTube is because that is the only main source that we can check about his biography, as it is uncommon for other media (especially popular media) will never cover on those topics. I think it is natural that the main sources are primary sources. A question I have is why is Distractify considered unreliable? The media is a popular online publication and even competes with companies like BuzzFeed. I do get that Sportskeeda is not the most reliable source, and we will need an improvement on the sources of where that is covered. ShdogKING (talk) 07:18, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For the purposes of establishing notability, a source has to be independent of the subject. If there's so little media coverage about him that you have to rely on his own self-published information about himself to support a Wikipedia article, then he can't have a Wikipedia article: people can lie about themselves, people can self-aggrandize, people can puff themselves up to sound more important and prominent than they actually are, and on and so forth, so notability doesn't vest in the things he says about himself, it vests in the extent to which his activities have or haven't garnered third party coverage in media to establish that people without a vested interest in his career have externally validated its significance. Notability, in other words, isn't "did stuff", it's "was considered significant enough that media covered the stuff he did as news" — and if a person can't demonstrate the latter, then he doesn't get a Wikipedia article. Bearcat (talk) 16:37, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I do understand your opinion on why you want the article to be directed to Denis and Me. It is in fact a big problem when people lie about themselves and make themselves look more than they are, especially on the internet. However, I do not see the reason why the sources (such as his birth date, subscriber count, and about his old Roblox group The Pals) would be exaggerated and lied upon, because of two main reasons..
Why would you lie about your own birth date? Even if he did, how can we prove that it is indeed the Youtuber's own birthday? It is only him that can tell his birthday, unless somthing unlikely such as his own passport will get leaked happens. Like, for example, no one ever has spoke out about whether Bayashi (in JA) or Nick DiGiovanni's birthday is the truth, and people like that have never been considered beeing removed or moved. I listed food content creators, but this is true for any Youtube content creator, really.

People can simply not lie about something that many people, especially fans of Denis and people around him saw/see over on the internet. It is a prominent, unchangable fact that The Pals existed, and although there was no popular media that is known worldwide that spread about the drama, it is indeed that The Pals disbanded due to one of the members (Corl) saying something impolite to one of his audience. I also want to point out that although there isn't particular news channels/companies that cover about this topic, there are many Youtube videos about the topic, and has been a significant drama betweem audiences of many gaming channels, even outside of Roblox.

Also, it isn't common for news websites to cover about drama in gaming channels, or facts about Youtube channels in general but there has been plenty of Wikipedia coverage of them. From what the things of the Wikipedia article states, the things that are stated are not yet big enough things to be covered in news, or it is covered by a news network that isn't worldwide but is a prominent news network.

P.S. I notice that Tuko is unreliable on this topic. The Tuko citation needs to be removed. ShdogKING (talk) 06:19, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This is about all I can find, [1], not enough for notability. Oaktree b (talk) 22:47, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify, the article was originally a draft. Brachy08 _(Talk) 01:43, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I never really wanted to redirect the page to the article namespace, because I didn't think it was ready yet. Worthipedia (talk) 01:51, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about it. But you can always try again until it’s on the article namespace. (Wait a minute, how did you figure out namespaces?) Brachy08 _(Talk) 03:11, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: per nomination. Idiosincrático (talk) 02:08, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as WP:ATD per Bearcat until more sources can be found. The one source posted earlier looks promising, but I'm having a hard time finding any more sources that could make him pass GNG per WP:THREE. PantheonRadiance (talk) 07:30, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Denis and Me per Bearcat and WP:ATD. --Lenticel ^(talk) 07:45, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.