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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Russian roulette#Notable incidents. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:15, 1 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Deaths by Russian roulette

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Deaths by Russian roulette (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Challenged Blank and redirect. List content is almost all non-notable, and there is no clear criteria for inclusion. It also mirrors Russian roulette#Notable incidents. Mdann52 (talk) 19:47, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 20:15, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 20:15, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect as per nom. Power~enwiki (talk) 00:32, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete As per nom. The Holy Spirit of Coke (talk) 15:12, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect per nom. If nothing it notable enough to be merged, then this may as well be changed into be a redirect. Bensci54 (talk) 17:02, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Keep or not sure I could agree with a merge and redirect but am not ready to agree to blank and redirect or deletion. Wikipedia readers love information about death as evidenced in the fact that "list of deaths" by year is always a top-10 Wikipedia article by popularity. At Category:Lists of people by cause of death we have lots of articles which are lists of people dying in various ways, and most of those lists are cited instances of people dying in some odd way without also including any journalism or research overview of the phenomena of death in this manner. There could be a list article for this subject because between this article and the main article we have about 10 citations. This information is probably undue for the main article and I see no reason why it should not be forked here where people can add future cases with citations. Blue Rasberry (talk) 17:28, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and redirect to Russian roulette. An interesting case. We would surely reject articles about any of these individual mentions as WP:NOTNEWS, but do they merit mentions in another article? I'm inclined to agree with User:Bluerasberry that these are probably too trivial to mention in Russian roulette, but I would challenge the idea that it's worth a standalone article just because folks would want to see it. By that logic there would be a lot more articles about individual Pokemons, porn stars, etc. A Traintalk 18:07, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A Train You make a good comparison with pokemon and I had that in mind also. I am not sure if you are aware of Wikipedia:Pokémon test but I think that applies here. There are 700+ pokemon and Wikipedia lists them all in various articles at List of Pokémon. Discussion around pokemon established the idea that Wikipedia can feature lists of items which individually are non-notable. I do not think that these individual deaths should have their own articles, but putting all deaths in one list article aside from the main article seems fine to me. Consider for comparison List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States. Those also get managed based on the Pokemon precedent. Blue Rasberry (talk) 18:30, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Bluerasberry, I do indeed remember the great debate around Pokemon articles -- I was one of the editors arguing against individual articles for them back in the day. I would argue that there's a fundamental difference here between police shootings and Russian roulette deaths. Police shootings are in themselves an important social phenomenon and a lot of ink is spilled discussing them -- which makes for an encyclopedic topic. Russian roulette deaths are a (ghoulish) curiousity, and fairly rare at that. If we could find some articles that talk about the social impact of Russian roulette deaths (as we could about police shootings and Pokemon), then I'd change my tune. A Traintalk 18:52, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A Train I think that is a fair counterpoint and will say that I am not sure how important Russian roulette deaths are to log. Police shootings are more important. Russian roulette at least is a notable topic, so it merits an article more than some method which is not notable. I can agree that having sociological papers would contribute to establishing notability and that we do not have those. So far as I know this concept is more of a plot device in fiction than anything else. I still say "keep" but you have good points which prevent me from being totally convinced that my position is correct. I think that deletion is justifiable. Blue Rasberry (talk) 18:59, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciated the thought-provoking discussion, Bluerasberry. Cheers, A Traintalk 19:12, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Deaths are not individually notable, but that is not the issue here. The issue is whether a single article with a list of such deaths is notable. We can have notable lists of non-notable things when the general topic is notable but individual items too trivial for their own articles, and, like the Pokémon, that seems to be the case here. Smartyllama (talk) 20:45, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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