Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dead Man's Curve

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) DavidLeighEllis (talk) 00:02, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dead Man's Curve[edit]

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An indiscriminate and trivial list. The term as seems more apt for for defining on Wiktionary rather than Wikipedia. True CRaysball | ^#RaysUp 23:58, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I can understand the nominator's point of view, but to me the list is not indiscriminate because the relationship to road safety seems evident when you look at the widespread use of the term by putting it into a news search engine. As for trivial, I disagree there, too – just click on "What links here" to see how many other articles refer the reader to this page. (Many other editors have taken the time to link to it.) Where the present article falls down is its lack of WP:Reliable sources. The term is also used in at least one foreign language – Spanish. The article should be improved by removing WP:Original research and finding good sources, but it should be retained. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 00:48, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What makes each individual dead man's curve independently notable, though? We have a curve residents of my hometown of Haines City, Florida we call "Dead Man's Curve", but it's not notable outside our town. True CRaysball | ^#RaysUp
- I did a count of the references given on the curves currently listed: Eleven are referenced only with a link to google maps; ten have references to other sources; and eight have no references given. I'd consider a reference/link to a google map to be WP:OR as far as 'naming' a curve with this moniker. So that means only a third of the list is sourced. If we remove the original research, the list is substantially smaller. You're okay with that and still vote as a keep? - ¢Spender1983 (talk) 22:53, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. — JJMC89 (T·E·C) 01:18, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Unless an article is so terribly written and poorly sourced that it would be better to blow it up, we generally keep even mediocre articles such as this. Whole articles and entire books have been written on notable dead men's curves, which may be found easily, such as the old IRT curve at Broadway and 14th Street as is goes around Union Square in New York City, so the concept is notable. There's an old guideline that AfD is not for ordinary editing fixes. Bearian (talk) 21:49, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Bearian, Can you help me out? Are there specific examples of "entire books written on notable dead men's curves" that you can give? I searched amazon and google books and I'm not finding any. (BTW, please don't point to books about the Jan and Dean song and say they are entirely about the curve in the road.) - ¢Spender1983 (talk) 22:53, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - PennySpender1983, searching for reliable sources about the generic term online would involve, in my sister's terminology, separating fly manure from ground black pepper. So I suggest looking for sources about individual examples, such as the Union Square (New York). For that one, I found these sources: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], and a significant NY Times story in 2005. I also found passing mentions related to coincidental historic events at [6], in a bibliography, as well as a free-use image of the plaque therein. Bearian (talk) 00:44, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    - Bearian, As much fun as it would be to discuss how you see The Beginnings Of The Cinema In England,1894-1901: Volume 4: 1899, By John Barnes as a reference relevant to your point, I do see that you found a reference that can solve a request for citation in the current article. (See my edits in the article.) Thanks for your help in finding that. - ¢Spender1983 (talk) 23:56, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - Regarding the one in Marquette County, Michigan, that Dead Man's Curve is the subject of its own local historical marker, and it's the site of the first state highway centerline in the US, as noted by the Michigan Department of Transportation and the Federal Highway Administration.
    Kulsea, Bill; Shawver, Tom (1980). Making Michigan Move: A History of Michigan Highways and the Michigan Department of Transportation. Lansing: Michigan Department of Transportation. p. 10.
    Federal Highway Administration (1977). America's Highways, 1776–1976: A History of the Federal-Aid Program. Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office. p. 127. OCLC 3280344.
    Rogers, Frank F. (1922). Biennial Report of the State Highway Commissioner for the Fiscal Years ending June 30, 1921, and June 30, 1922 (9th ed.). Lansing, MI: Fort Wayne Printing. p. 6, plate I.
    Imzadi 1979 → 07:01, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This nickname for dangerous road locations is used often enough in WP:Secondary sources to warrant being included in Wikipedia as an article. The New York Times is an example of a WP:Reliable, WP:Secondary source that uses the term. I do suggest a Move to Dead man's curve as this is a nickname and not a proper name. - ¢Spender1983 (talk) 23:56, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. While the article clearly has room for improvement, the subject is notable, as documented in earlier comments. Reify-tech (talk) 04:43, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.