Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dave Zirin

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep--Ymblanter (talk) 07:25, 16 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Dave Zirin[edit]

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Primarily an author of a non-notable blog, and of non-notable books, though he sometimes has had bylines in notable media such as the Nation, this blogger fails to attract sufficient coverage by RSs of him, himself, to satisfy GNG. The refs in the article are primarily refs to his own blog, as well as refs to his "author descriptions" and his own writings. Epeefleche (talk) 22:48, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep He's not just a blogger with an occasional by-line; he's the sports editor at the Nation with his own radio show on Sirius XM. Other media organizations frequently turn to him for comment (see this list of his appearances on Democracy Now or this list of media appearance on his bio at the Zinn Education Project). Just between book reviews[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] and interviews[9][10][11], I think we have plenty of coverage by RSs of him himself. -- Irn (talk) 01:36, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi zirn. The book reviews are not substantial RS coverage of Zirin -- they barely touch on him, and focus instead on the books.

And the interviews are not RS coverage of Zirin--they consist mostly of his own words, and as such that's a primary source, like his own bio of himself on his blog, and do not count towards notability. A "public appearance" -- not covered in depth by RSs -- does not suffice.

What we are missing is substantial RS coverage of the man himself.Epeefleche (talk) 01:56, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. WP:GNG only specifies that the coverage address him "directly and in detail" without being a mere "passing mention", and in the above sources, we have that. While GNG specifies that he "need not be the main topic of the source material", we have that, too, with his Utne award[12], his Sports Journalism award[13], his keynote speech at the Baseball Reliquary[14], articles about his public appearances[15][16][17][18], and a 2001 Washington Post article about his political activism[19]. -- Irn (talk) 19:10, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What we are missing is substantial RS coverage of the man himself. A non-notable award does not suffice. A non-RS does not suffice. A speech -- covered only by the non-RS, for whom he spoke -- does not suffice. A WSJ article (this one doesn't have a WSJ url) would be helpful, of course, but not in itself sufficient. BTW - do you have a COI here? Thanks. Epeefleche (talk) 19:47, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No. -- Irn (talk) 00:18, 11 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:46, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:47, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:47, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep WP:AUTHOR makes it quite clear that, for authors and other creative professionals, in-depth reviews of their work in reliable sources do help to establish notability, whether or not they give substantial information about the author. The sources found by User:Irn are of varying quality, but this one from The New Republic is very much the kind of review needed for notability, and three or four of the others, while less substantial, are also from reliable sources and are detailed enough to help to some extent towards notability (and the review from Sports Illustrated would probably help almost as much as that from The New Republic if we had the original rather than the version reprinted by the subject's employer). But even discounting the Sports Illustrated review, I think there is just about enough to establish notability, even if the article needs a thorough rewrite to reduce its reliance on primary sources to an acceptable level. PWilkinson (talk) 00:19, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Sufficient career accomplishment to merit encyclopedic biography. Sourcing out journalists is notoriously hard, since competitors don't write about them and if their own publications write about them it does not count to GNG. in he absence of a Special Notability Guideline for journalists and columnists, a little common sense is called for. Zirin is a nationally recognized figure, probably the best-known American "political" sportswriter. Keep under the pillar and policy of IAR. Carrite (talk) 23:06, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.