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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Spartaz Humbug! 03:32, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel Catenacci

[edit]
Daniel Catenacci (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Junior player who has yet to play professionally or meet any of the conditions of WP:NHOCKEY. Can be recreated when/if the subject acheives notability. I do acknowledge his being the first pick overall in the OHL, however that is not notable as many people picked in that position have never amounted to anything. WP:CRYSTAL. Since it was a disputed prod claiming it that the player won a major award. The Jack Ferguson Award is not a major award, not every award given by a league is major. The major awards are MVP, Top Defence, Top Goalie, First All-Star team. (generic names to apply to any league). An award given to someone drafted first is none of those things. DJSasso (talk) 20:24, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Jack Ferguson Award is a major award. There is no consensus that a "major award" as given out by ice hockey leagues is limited to "MVP", "Top Defence", "Top Goalie", and "First All-Star team" as you have stated in your deletion nominations here and here. By making such a bold statement without claiming it to be your personal opinion, you have implied that your statement is a fact (i.e. support by a consensus) - but it is not as it is only your opinion. Please state your personal opinions as your opinions, and do not attempt to mislead others into thinking that this is an issue that has already been decided by consensus. I suggest that you strike your bold statements and rephrase them as your opinion. Dolovis (talk) 20:57, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There is no consensus that the Jack Ferguston Award is a major award, so it would appear that that is just your opinion as well. Does anyone have any evidence that it is either a major or minor award? My own opinion is that it would be a minor award, as it appears to be awarded solely on the basis of who was drafted first that year (as opposed to being awarded on the basis of being a good player, scoring a lot of goals, i.e. actually doing something), and it is not even a national award (it's only for the Ontario Hockey League), and it is only awarded to teenagers. One thing you may be confused about is that when WP:ATHLETE says "major award", it is meant as a major award in the context of the sport as a whole, not in the context of the league in question. So, while the JF award may be a major award for the OHL, it is almost certainly not a major award in the context of the entire sport of hockey. SnottyWong chatter 23:01, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Evidence that the Jack Ferguson Award it is a Major Award is that the presentation of this this award is covered in every newspaper in Canada, as well as internationally. Further the award has been deemed notable enough to support its own Wikipedia article. And as for a "regional award", please know that Ontario is larger than most (if not all) European countries, and supplies more players to the NHL than any other league in the world. Players come from all over the world to play in the OHL. Dolovis (talk) 23:24, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
But the awarding of this award is not covered in every newspaper in Canada (as can be seen by zero hits on google news). I would be hard pressed to find many people in the country that have even heard of it, whereas I can guarantee that the winner of the trophies I mentioned will be covered in every newspaper. As someone else mentioned, just because this league hands out an award for being drafted first over all doesn't make this player more notable than someone drafted in the QMJHL or WHL that were drafted first. -DJSasso (talk) 23:50, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There are a lot more than zero hits on GNews, and thousands more google web hits. 04:49, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
So 1 newspaper and a website that puts out press releases for teams/leagues. Still doesn't show that every newspaper in the country and many internationally cover it. Looks like only 1 paper has covered it. Secondly if you actually looked at the google hits you would see almost all of them are either wiki mirrors, or blog sites, which still are not every newspaper across the country. -DJSasso (talk) 12:40, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • not keep on basis of article - Like McFarland, I don't think the Ferguson award is enough. There does seem to be enough content out there on the web for general notability, but it's not sourced in the article. As a stub, it's a waste of time. I'd support a keep if sources are built up. I don't know if the media is just content-hungry but google did find 18,000 hits for "daniel catenacci" hockey. Is the media so lame that they cover teenagers this much? ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 22:40, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    My guess is that alot of those hits are WP:ROUTINE which is all you can find for most junior players beyond the ones that have clearly risen above the other juniors. -DJSasso (talk) 23:52, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: The article under discussion here has been flagged for {{rescue}} by the Article Rescue Squadron. SnottyWong spout 23:03, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - The main argument for notability appears to be that this player was the first draft pick in a regional, sub-national, teenage hockey league. I'm not buying it. Not enough coverage to pass WP:GNG. Let's keep in mind that this individual is 17 years old and plays in a junior teenage hockey league in Ontario, Canada. You're going to have to have done something pretty extraordinary to be notable for playing hockey at age 17. Playing in a regional kiddie league probably isn't going to cut it. SnottyWong spout 23:03, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete A first overall pick in the OHL draft does not qualify as being more notable than a first overall pick in any other junior draft just because the OHL hands out a trophy for it. This individual is, for the moment, not notable. Resolute 23:15, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Being the author of the NHOCKEY criteria certainly doesn't give me more of a vote than the next editor, but it was certainly my intent when drafting #4 that a "defensive defenseman" award would not remotely be considered a "major" award; I wonder, as it happens, what Dolovis would consider a "minor" award if not that? Looking at the criterion further, I define "preeminent honors" as "(all-time top ten career scorer, won a major award given by the league, first team all-star, All-American)" To presume I thought winning a defensive defenseman award or being drafted first by a junior league to be equal in stature with being named an All-American or being the all-time top ten leading scorer in a league is farcical. In any event, this AfD has provoked consensus towards tightening the language up much further.  Ravenswing  04:36, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Has not yet met the standards set by WP:NHOCKEY. Being the first player drafted in a junior league does not establish notability. Receiving an award for being the top drafted player in that same junior league is not "preeminent honors" as based in #4 of the NHOCKEY inclusion criteria. Can be recreated or restored when notability is established. -Pparazorback (talk) 06:02, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Delete Others who know about hockey say so, and I would concur.--DThomsen8 (talk) 16:51, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:29, 24 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Non-notable athlete. The Jack Ferguson Award is not notable. – Nurmsook! talk... 01:43, 25 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: no indication that this player meets WP:NHOCKEY. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 09:40, 25 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - does not pass notability guideline. Reaper Eternal (talk) 15:03, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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