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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Opinions are divided about whether there are enough good sources for this topic, and this isn't something I can decide as the closer. Sandstein 06:34, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dalit History Month[edit]

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Dalit History Month (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Fails WP:EVENT and WP:GNG.

Coverage is trivial and made by partisan sources for promoting an agenda. Nothing significant or notable has been proven. Unreliable blog sources at best only talk about "why we need Dalit History month"[1], which means that there is no such month and Wikipedia should not be used for advocacy per WP:ADVOCACY and WP:PROMOTION. WalkingDisks (talk) 15:12, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. WalkingDisks (talk) 15:21, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
These sources are unreliable and they frequently publish the articles they have received from their readers. The News Minute makes it clear on the source that "It is for these reasons that, through the month of April, The News Minute brings its readers a series of special reports and articles focused on caste, with the objective of keeping the conversation going."[2] It fails WP:RS. Shouldn't be hard to identify that these sources reads like typical press-releases. Bharatiya29 19:16, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Apparently this "history month" is going on for 5 years but lacks any significant coverage from independent reliable sources such as WP:HISTRS and WP:SCHOLARSHIP sources. Bharatiya29 19:16, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep passes WP:GNG and WP:LASTING.There is significant coverage in reliable sources , clearly independent leading Indian newspapers ,magazines ,newsites including Deccan Herald ,First Post ,Business Standard,LiveMint,The Indian Express ,The Hindu ,Huffington Post ,ThePrint ,The Asian Age ,The Week ,Outlook and Hindustan Times amongst others and also Academic journals like Television & New Media published by SAGE Publications and CrossCurrents this is without going through the Indian regional language media.Please note we are not comparing the sources of this article with Black History Month.Some newspapers are publishing a series of articles as part of Dalit history Month and there some other references in the article.As noted in the Washington Post ref below a news portal called The News Minute became the first mainstream English media outlet in India to run a Dalit History Month series on caste discrimination, Dalit poetry and art and this being followed by some other newspapers as well of publishing a series of articles not just one single article under Dalit history Month.
  • Please note the references below are from leading mainstream Indian newspapers and magazines and I strongly disagree that all of them are promoting an agenda and publishing press releases or advertising in the form of articles to promote this, the only major Indian English newspaper not below is The Times of India.Most of them have been considered reliable sources for years and see no major issue in the RSN board to be considered otherwise or to be considered partisan.
  1. The Asian Age How Wikipedia cancels dalit icons
  2. The Hindu Celebrating Dalit History Month
  3. Huffington Post Dalit History Month Is A Love Letter To Our Ancestors
  4. Deccan Herald A month to reminisce Dalit contribution to history
  5. First Post Ambedkar Jayanti 2017: Here's a look at Dalit History Month to explore forgotten narratives
  6. Feminism India Writing Our Own Histories – Why We Need Dalit History Month
  7. LiveMint A brief history of the Dalit memoir
  8. Spotted Goddesses: Dalit Women's Agency-Narratives on Caste and Gender Violence
  9. Washington Post The new 140-character war on India’s caste system
  10. Business Standard Revisiting stories to revive Dalit history Dalit History Month hopes to refocus the world's attention on the experiences of the community
  11. Hindustan Times Why we must not do away with reservations for Dalits: Opinion by Sadhguru
  12. ThePrint of Shekhar Gupta DALIT HISTORY MONTH Articles that are part of the Dalit History Month series
  13. First Post Dalit history month: In UP's Chitrakoot upper-caste sanitation workers outsource cleaning to lower-castes, paying them paltry sums as wages
  14. The News Minute The Dalit History Month Series.
  15. The Wire Dalit History Month: Education Is a Distant Dream for Some Children
  16. Himal Southasian Dalit History Month
  17. India Abroad A call for Dalit Renaissance: Oppressed community confronts diaspora’s discrimination
  18. Asia News Indian bishops invite the faithful to celebrate April as ‘Dalit history month'
  19. Daily hunt A month to reminisce Dalit contribution to history
  20. The Indian Express How Babasaheb helped me understand my identity as a Dalit-Christian
  21. Scroll Resistance and resilience: Dalit History Month 2018 showcases neglected histories and untold stories
  22. Deccan Herald Ambedkar Jayanti: A year of turbulence and some hope
  23. The Week Unapologetically yours
  24. Outlook These Arrows Don’t Miss Their Mark
  25. ThePrint Dalit history threatens the powerful. That is why they want to erase, destroy and jail it
  26. Scroll Resistance and resilience: Dalit History Month 2018 showcases neglected histories and untold stories
  27. Television & New Media published by SAGE Publications New Media and the Dalit Counter-public Sphere Sage Journals
  28. CrossCurrents "Resisting Injustice: Seeking New Ways to Speak!" Cross Currents
Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:51, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://www.asianage.com/opinion/columnists/151219/how-wikipedia-cancels-dalit-icons.html No Looks affiliated, the writer is a dalit activist. No Opinion pieces are not reliable source. No Fails it. ✘ No
https://www.thehindu.com/books/celebrating-the-dalit-history-month/article23527323.ece Yes Not really affiliated with the source. Yes Reliable, but it is mainly about a different subject. No Just a single sentence mention of actual "dalit history month", rest of the article is about just something else. ✘ No
https://www.huffingtonpost.in/thenmozhi-soundararajan/dalit-history-month-is-a-_b_9726120.html No Affiliated with the subject. Source itself calls the writer a "Dalit transmedia artist and activist". No It is just an opinion piece which is written like an advertisement since it promotes involved individuals, their facebooks, and their websites. No Since we are talking about what "has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". ✘ No
https://www.deccanherald.com/content/669977/a-month-reminisce-dalit-contribution.html No Mainly cites the opinions of people like "Dr Karthik Navayan, a human rights activist". No It is a clear re-write of the opinion piece from Huffington Post, a total advertisement promoting involved individuals and their websites. No Absolutely fails GNG. ✘ No
https://www.firstpost.com/living/ambedkar-jayanti-2017-heres-a-look-at-dalit-history-month-to-explore-forgotten-narratives-3383696.html No Same as above. Repost of the opinion piece written on Huffington Post. No It is a clear re-write of the opinion piece from Huffington Post, a total advertisement. No Far from it. ✘ No
https://feminisminindia.com/2017/04/27/dalit-history-month/ No Unreliable opinion blog. No I have already addressed this source on nomination that it talks about "Why We Need Dalit History Month" in the sense that we don't have one in reality. No Advertisements don't count. ✘ No
https://www.firstpost.com/living/ambedkar-jayanti-2017-heres-a-look-at-dalit-history-month-to-explore-forgotten-narratives-3383696.html Yes Not affiliated with the subject. Yes No question about the source. No Only a quote from "Christina Dhanaraj of the Dalit History Month Collective" who is obviously not independent neither the coverage is significant. ✘ No
a book Yes Not affiliated with the subject. Yes No question about the source. No Only a single word passing mention. ✘ No
Washington Post The new 140-character war on India’s caste system Yes Not affiliated with the subject. Yes No question about the source. No Only a single word hashtag passing mention. ✘ No
Business Standard Revisiting stories to revive Dalit history Dalit History Month hopes to refocus the world's attention on the experiences of the community ? The details about the author are scarce. Yes No question about the source. No Same interviews with the closely involved people and the article ultimately reads like an advertisement. ✘ No
Hindustan Times Why we must not do away with reservations for Dalits: Opinion by Sadhguru No Not the author's field. No Not the author's field. No Only a single word passing mention. ✘ No
ThePrint of DALIT HISTORY MONTH Articles that are part of the Dalit History Month series No Not an article, just a category or a keyword. No Not an article, just a category or a keyword. No Not an article, just a category or a keyword. ✘ No
First Post Dalit history month: In UP's Chitrakoot upper-caste sanitation workers outsource cleaning to lower-castes, paying them paltry sums as wages Yes Not affiliated with the subject. Yes No question about the source. No Only a single mention in a clickbait headline. ✘ No
News Minute The Dalit History Month Series. No Churnalism don't count. No Obviously unreliable. No Just a set of dialogues and interviews provided to the website by the involved individuals. ✘ No
The Wire Dalit History Month: Education Is a Distant Dream for Some Children No Churnalism don't count. No Obviously unreliable. No Only a single word passing mention in a clickbait headline. ✘ No
India Abroad A call for Dalit Renaissance: Oppressed community confronts diaspora’s discrimination No Churnalism don't count. It is just about an event hosted by the involved individuals. No Unreliable self-published blog. No Because unreliable sources are inclined to include more details about non-notable subject by posting their interviews and stuff. ✘ No
Himmal South Asian Dalit History Month No See no article. No Not an article, just a category or a keyword. No Not an article, just a category or a keyword. ✘ No
Asia News Indian bishops invite the faithful to celebrate April as ‘Dalit history month' No Asianews.it is a Christian missionary source. No unreliable No It nowhere describes the 'history month' either way. ✘ No
Daily hunt A month to reminisce Dalit contribution to history No Just a reposting of Deccan herald per the footnote: "Disclaimer: This story is auto-aggregated by a computer program and has not been created or edited by Dailyhunt. Publisher: Deccan Herald" No unreliable No reposting of a press release ✘ No
The Indian Express How Babasaheb helped me understand my identity as a Dalit-Christian No Opinion piece published by the co-founder of the subject and includes no details about this subject. No unreliable No Opinion piece with only a passing mention in footnote that the author is related to the subject. ✘ No
Scroll Resistance and resilience: Dalit History Month 2018 showcases neglected histories and untold stories No Churnalism don't count. Article is exactly same as the one pubished by dailyhunt. No unreliable No Churnalism that is yet another repost of a press-release ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
Consider comparing these passing mentions, inferior, unreliable, and plain advertisements with the sources concerning Black History Month[3][4], a history month which this subject (Dalit history month) is admittedly attempting to imitate. You would realize that this subject has failed to attract "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". WalkingDisks (talk) 07:43, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I updated my table following this comment. I would repeat it again, that this is subject promotes historical revisionism and we need neutral reliable (preferably scholarly sources) to define this subject. The sources we have right now are far from that. WalkingDisks (talk) 11:55, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. North America1000 13:11, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. North America1000 13:11, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per sources brought by Pharaoh of the Wizards and visible in my own search.NotButtigieg (talk) 16:10, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have analyzed them right above. Can you show your sources too? WalkingDisks (talk) 07:44, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
courtesy ping to NotButtigieg. —usernamekiran(talk) 22:58, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would say that the Deccan Herald article A month to reminisce Dalit contribution to history [5] is focused on this month, and in in depth. And although it is only an opiniion essay, editors may see the relevance of the discussion of Dalit History Month in How Wikipedia cancels dalit icons [6]. My searchs bring up quite a lot of sources, including "transmedia artist and activist Thenmozhi Soundarajan along with other Dalit women in the US and in India helped lead the #DalitWomenFight campaign and started Dalit History Month in April to exemplify Dalit history and resistance." (p. 60, Spotted goddesses : Dalit women's agency-narratives on caste and gender violence, Roja Singh, Zürich : Lit Verlag GmbH & Co. KG Wien, [2018]). NotButtigieg (talk) 15:47, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The first example is obviously a non-neutral press release (as highlighted by the nominator). The second example is a mere passing mention. How do these sources fulfil the GNG requirements? --RaviC (talk) 01:03, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 15:42, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment -- If this is notable as the author of the table seems to imply, it requires a much more substantial article that says what the "month" has achieved. I am not disputing the reliability of the article, but am questioning whether it is notable. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:17, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I like this and think it is awesome, but the sum of all the parts of this come across as slightly promotional and possibly the case that this is perhaps a bit too new - which sort of feeds back into the promotional vibe I'm getting from this. Yes, I am aware that this has its roots from 2013 as an observance. I would rather see this return to Wikipedia after it has some solid footing on its own. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 21:26, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom and Bharatiya29. Similar press-releases, hashtag promotions and articles mainly involving interviews of closely involved people fails our requirement of significant coverage from independent sources. --RaviC (talk) 01:15, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per sources found above. We need more authentic WP:RS verification rather than deletion nominator himself(WalkingDisks).Shankar2001 (talk) 02:04, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Please note disagree with the asseement of sources above and giving 3 clear examples as per WP:THREE Sorry to say I disagree with the assessment above by the nom while do not want comment on each and every one but will give you 3 clear examples. Went the list of all the articles written by V Ajmal in Deccan Herald here or Ankita Maneck in First Posthere are clearly independent of all the topics they have written.
  1. V Ajmal is a Journalist writing in the Deccan Herald and writes on numerous topics clearly diverse topics as ‘Sumac’ offers authentic Turkish, Afghan dishes to Weight Loss to Kerala Election Victory as seen here and Deccan Herald is WP:RS and this is not a Press release or an interview A month to reminisce Dalit contribution to history]
  2. Ankita Maneck is a Journalist writing in the First Post and writes on numerous topics which are clearly diverse topics as seen here and this is a not a Press release or an interview Ambedkar Jayanti 2017: Here's a look at Dalit History Month to explore forgotten narratives
  3. Geetanjali Krishna a journalist writing in the Business Standard and writes on numerous topics which as clearly diverse topics as seen here and this is a not a Press release or an interview Revisiting stories to revive Dalit history
"V Ajmal is a Journalist writing in the Deccan Herald", but the article is promotional citing people of the organization and written only to promote it.
"Ankita Maneck is a Journalist writing in the First Post", but the article is a clear re-write of the opinion piece from Huffington Post, a total advertisement.
"Geetanjali Krishna a journalist writing in the Business Standard"... still the article has same interviews with the closely involved people and the article ultimately reads like an advertisement.
Washington Post only mentions a hashtag.
If you really want to prove notability this essentially WP:FRINGE subject which promotes historical revisionism, then you would need quality scholarly sources like others have already noted. Not just advertisements. For a name, Black History Month[7][8] has enough independent coverage from the reliable sources to back up the subject's notability. WalkingDisks (talk) 09:36, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
Deccan Herald:A month to reminisce Dalit contribution to history Yes Yes: V Ajmal is a Journalist writing in the Deccan Herald clearly independent of the subject and writes on numerous topics clearly diverse topics as ‘Sumac’ offers authentic Turkish, Afghan dishes to Weight Loss to Kerala Election Victory as seen here Yes Deccan Herald is a WP:RS Yes Yes ✔ Yes
First Post:Ambedkar Jayanti 2017: Here's a look at Dalit History Month to explore forgotten narratives Yes Yes. Ankita Maneck is a Journalist writing in the First Post clearly independent of the subject and writes on numerous topics clearly diverse topics as seen here Yes First Post is a WP:RS Yes Yes ✔ Yes
Business Standard:Revisiting stories to revive Dalit history Dalit History Month hopes to refocus the world's attention on the experiences of the community Yes Y Geetanjali Krishna a journalist writing in the Business Standard clearly independent of the subject and writes on numerous topics which as clearly diverse topics as seen here Yes Business Standard is a WP:RS Yes Yes ✔ Yes
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 01:27, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Right in the beginning of WP:THREE, it says: This is an essay on notability. It contains the advice or opinions of one or more Wikipedia contributors. This page is not one of Wikipedia's policies or guidelines, as it has not been thoroughly vetted by the community. And this essay is in userspace, at User:RoySmith/Three best sources. —usernamekiran(talk) 19:18, 17 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Dennis. The references above are merely part of the subject's own activism to promote the subject than any coverage which would be totally independent from the subject. Orientls (talk) 15:50, 17 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete the subject fails notability criteria for events, and general notability criteria as well. It has been going on for 4-5 years, and it doesnt have sustained significant coverage. What I could find is press releases, and interviews. Both of these things can not be used establish notability. Also, "per all the delete votes above". —usernamekiran(talk) 19:18, 17 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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