Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cory Boyas

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. — Aitias // discussion 20:16, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cory Boyas

Contested prod. Article on a director, choreographer and teacher that offers no reliable sources. A search offers none either therefore the subject fails WP:BIO and associated guidelines. Nuttah (talk) 18:44, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – sorry to say at this time Mr. Boyas does not meet the notability guidelines established for inclusion on Wikipedia. No hits at all on Google News, as shown here [1], where I would expect to find at least one review. On a general Google search, I was only able to find MySpace – Facebook – Wikipedia and wiki mirror sites that mention Mr. Boyas. As we cannot verify any claim, through an independent – 3rd party – creditable and verifiable source, our guidelines stipulate deletion at this time. Thanks. ShoesssS ^Talk 19:39, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:01, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep –I completely disagree. Mr. Boyas is a well-respected member of the theater and dance communities. As is often the case in live performances, much of the information is never shared in the media, as it is often found not as "newsworthy" as celebrity gossip or other such nonsense. Mr. Boyas is listed on the Internet Broadway Database and I personally can verify he taught at Broadway Dance Center and Steps on Broadway. I am a NYC dancer and have had the privilege and honor to be directed and choreographed by Mr. Boyas in a summer stock production of "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat," and worked on a separate cabaret production with him and Gregory HInes. I urge you not to be so hasty in your decision making process. It may take more work to research an actor/director/choreographer of the theater, but stage performers are no less important than those of the silver screen or on television, although their exposure is not as great. Wikipedia is a wonderful outlet to recognize these individuals for their accomplishments so that their voices may finally be heard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.91.160.165 (talk) 13:52, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

— 72.91.160.165 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Comment - Wikipedia’s formation and being was not founded to recognize individuals for their individual perceived accomplishments, MySpace and FaceBook have that area covered, but rather an outlet for information that has been deemed notable through independent – 3rd party – creditable and verifiable sources. This is not a reflection on Mr. Boyas dedication or talent within his given field, but rather an assertion that he has not gained the notability required for inclusion at this time. Hopefully I will read about Mr. Boyas here on Wikipedia one day. But first I need to read about him in 3rd party – independent – creditable and verifiable sources. Thanks. ShoesssS ^Talk 15:55, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment ~~Keep~~– I understand ShoesssS' frustration of not being able to verify each stage performance, but the fact of the matter is that until very recently, stage productions and their cast lists often died with the productions themselves. This should seriously be considered within Wikipedia's deletion policy, as there are many wonderful and notable stage actors, directors, and choreographers who for whatever reason did not enjoy the commercial success of film and television actors. Film and Television are much easier to verify, as their performances have been captured permanently, which is strictly forbidden by stage actors' unions such as Actors' Equity Association. It would be a pity to turn a blind eye to such an important segment of the performing arts community. The Internet Broadway Database has made great strides in bridging this gap, but even they must rely on contributions of old souvenir programs to add names. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.91.160.165 (talk) 22:18, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You seem to misunderstand. Wikipedia's core policies, WP:V and WP:NOR, insist that anything within the encyclopaedia MUST be verifiable from other independent reliable sources. A plea of 'these types of sources do not exist' is counter productive to a keep opinion. Additionally, you may only register a definitive opinion once in a debate. Nuttah (talk) 22:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I think that due diligence cannot be performed online for many live theater productions, and there must be an alternative for them to submit their sources for inclusion into Wikipedia. Is there a fax number where stage actors can submit programs, photos, and such? Even if you visit any performing arts center, you typically only see the name of the production, unless a "celebrity" is headlining the performance. I find the notability policy very one-sided and have several articles on both myself and Mr. Boyas which are not available online. Where would one submit these so that stage actors can be noted alongside their film and television counterparts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.91.160.165 (talk) 13:13, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – see discussion page Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Cory Boyas for reply and answer to your questions. Thanks. ShoesssS ^Talk 14:24, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, StarM 05:28, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete--Strange that there are no references available if subject directed and choreographed so many shows (and I don't mean there are no playbills). I agree with nominator: lack of sources (and I searched also, without finding anything) lead to lack of notability. Drmies (talk) 05:56, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nominator severely lacking in the non-trivial third party coverage department. JBsupreme (talk) 08:10, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Unfortunately, stage plays are very underrepresented on the internet, but that doesn't mean they're unverifiable. Someone should attempt a search for paper sources before a final decision is made. - Mgm|^(talk) 11:44, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, but "Cory Boyas" has no hits on the New York Times site, and they review an awful lot of plays and other stage productions. Mind you, the top four on his first list of highlights are to happen in 2009 (begs the question of whether they should be on the list...), and a lot of them are small productions, I guess, and so it may well be that it's not just underrepresentation (because I am really not so sure that stage productions are still underrepresented in terms of meaningful, notable references) but also the level at which these productions take place. Also, isn't notability here an issue also, besides verifiability? Drmies (talk) 14:52, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That is what I have been trying to explain. That is the crux of the argument at this time, not the variability that Mr. Boyas is a dancer/choreographer but is he notable enough to be included in Wikipedia. As he pointed out in his discussion, “Even if you visit any performing arts center, you typically only see the name of the production, unless a "celebrity" is headlining the performance”. That goes to my argument that though there are typically many individuals that take part in a performance, only the “Celebrity” is mentioned because they are considered Notable. Likewise, concerning the editors and writers working for a newspaper. We have many articles here on Wikipedia, dealing with newspapers such as the New York Times. However, we do not have articles on a vast majority of the editors and writers who work for the New York Times because they have not generated Significant coverage as to their individual accomplishments. Thanks. ShoesssS ^Talk 15:22, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: I couldn't find any verifiable sources to show notability. I do not question that he does what the article says he does, but one would expect that a notable director/choreographer would have some sources. Chasingsol (talk) 16:36, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.