Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christian girl group (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Contemporary Christian music. Most of the bold !votes were for delete and redirect, but I don't see any policy-based reason to delete the preexisting page history. – Joe (talk) 14:13, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Christian girl group[edit]

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Originally nominated by Slatersteven but was nominated by reopening an old AfD. Explanation and timestamp on old afd: No sources, so may well be users own opinion and musical classification. Slatersteven (talk) 8:51 am, 21 Feb 18. I am neutral on subject Nightfury 09:53, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Discuss 10:10, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Nightfury 10:10, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Nightfury 10:10, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The intent is to merge two smaller girl group articles (Aurora and Whisper Loud, and possibly V*Enna) into this larger article. These individual articles may not be notable on their own, but as part of a larger main article about Christian girl groups in general, notability could be established more easily. BarlowGirl and ZOEgirl have each sold over 1 million albums, while Point of Grace sold over 8 million, so there is certainly a case for notability. --LABcrabs (talk) 14:24, 21 February 2018 (UTC)][reply]

As long as this is a recognized genre of music (by RS) yes, but not as a made up classification.Slatersteven (talk) 14:46, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 14:44, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. The only references show that three bands exist, not that they are "girl groups", and not a single reference supporting the concept. At worst, any referenced content related to the subject could be merged into either Girl group#1990–present: Dance pop girl group era or Contemporary Christian music#Style and artists, and the list is unnecessary. The Aurora article should be deleted, not redirected to the article. Whisper Loud has a few refs for their one album, but could be deleted as well, while V*Enna is well referenced and doesn't need to be merged anywhere. BarlowGirl was an all-female rock band, not a girl group (reminds me of an anon who categorized all-male bands—such as the Beattles and U2—as boy bands) and similarly Point of Grace was a female vocal group, not a girl group either (if they're a girl group so is Sierra (group)). The only bona fide girl group in the second half of LABcrabs' list is ZOEgirl, and their chart performance and references ensure it will stay. But that there wereChristian girl groups is no reason to have an article dedicated to the subject if reliable sources independent of them cannot be found to support the topic. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:09, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Another reference has been added to support the claim that the most prominent entries in the article (Point of Grace and BarlowGirl) are not considered girl groups. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:10, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please read WP:RS (I get the ironry).Slatersteven (talk) 16:28, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing that it's a reliable source. I'm simply stating that if the author of that piece was trying to promote the category he would likely select the most prominent examples, and at the time of writing, PoG and BarlowGirl were much larger acts than the ones listed. I'm also thinking that if there were an article on Christian Bubblegum pop bands existed, this could be merged there. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:54, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I realize that, but I would have said it to anyone else who did try and use it. So in the interests of fairness thought I should inform you too (and also there is part of me that wants anyone reading this to not get the idea anyone here thinks these might be RS).Slatersteven (talk) 14:13, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and redirect to Contemporary Christian music. 1st nomination consensus in December 2007 was to merge and redirect. The article has attempted to be restored and very little has changed from the last previous version before redirection. Ajf773 (talk) 19:03, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that the topic of Christian girl groups is notable, but if we get too strict on what counts and what doesn't, then yes, the list will be narrowed down to just a few groups like ZOEgirl. Point of Grace and Sierra might feature older women, but they are still female vocal groups, and thus count for this article's sake. BarlowGirl wasn't signed to Fervent when the 2001 article was written, and it is both a girl group (Christmas) and a girl band. Both the Aurora and Whisper Loud articles note the scandal with Ja'Marc Davis, and while this could be relegated to the Raze article, it is still worth noting that the scandal had a significant impact on the future of Christian girl groups. I believe the article on Christian girl groups should only be deleted if it fails to see progress in the time after it is restored. --LABcrabs (talk) 04:38, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- The working definition is "All-female bands, in which members also play instruments, are usually considered a separate phenomenon", which is from girl group. So PoG and Sierra would qualify, but BarlowGirl would not. If we use the stricter definition of "female pop music singing groups", then Point of Grace and Sierra would not qualify. That was the one I was working from. In either case, RSes discussing the topic would determine whether the subject is notable or not. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:23, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Except when they are not (unless they are) The BarlowGirl case being a care to point they are not one one unless they are (quite literally read the article), this article is all very OR and synthy.Slatersteven (talk) 08:18, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 08:56, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and redirect to Contemporary Christian music. Does not pass WP:N. L293D (☎ • ✎) 03:10, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I don't think the redirect is necessary, but I'm not opposed to it. Sources for the most part aren't reliable here, including a LinkedIn profile. Nothing really establishes this as a genre of music or that this is a list considered discriminate enough to warrant inclusion as it is. Red Phoenix ^talk 05:43, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.