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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Excepting the nomination, the only other delete !vote referenced local news sources, a concern later cauterised with the provision of further sources. (non-admin closure) — fortunavelut luna 10:51, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Chris Colepaugh

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Chris Colepaugh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Article, with some advertorial overtones, about a musician with no strong claim to passing WP:NMUSIC and no strong reliable sources to support it: the sources here are a press release, two concert listings calendars and a single (deadlinked) news article in his own hometown newspaper. As always, every musician is not automatically entitled to a Wikipedia article just because he exists -- he must be properly sourced as actually passing a notability criterion, but nothing here accomplishes that at all. Bearcat (talk) 04:42, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Lepricavark (talk) 04:57, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Lepricavark (talk) 04:57, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The CBC link is from the CBC's local news bureau in Saint John, New Brunswick, not the CBC's national news division, and the Telegraph-Journal is a newspaper in Saint John, New Brunswick — but local media very routinely give coverage to hometown musicians who have accomplished nothing that would satisfy NMUSIC, so we can't keep an article about a musician just because it's sourced to a couple of pieces of purely local coverage. And AllMusic tries as much as possible to include a profile of every musician who ever appeared on any record at all — so it's an acceptable source for supplementary verification of facts, but not a source where the existence of an AllMusic profile counts as evidence of notability per se. So if those are the only sources you can find besides pointing me to the section of his own website where he advertorially highlights uncited compliments that various people have given him, then no, that's not good enough. Bearcat (talk) 15:57, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not saying I think he's notable (but he may be), but you really should do a search for coverage before bringing an article to AfD and state what you found. And no, Allmusic doesn't cover everyone or try to. It's a perfectly good reliable source. --Michig (talk) 16:28, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
They do have gaps in their coverage, and they do make mistakes, but they do at least attempt to include everyone. Every single album that has a profile on that site at all includes a list of every musician who was involved in making it, if they were able to locate the credits list at all — and every person included in that list always links to a separate "musician" profile that at least tries to list all of that person's album credits, and often adds biographical information as well if they're able to find any. Again, they do have gaps and errors and oversights, I'm not denying that — but yes, they do at least attempt to have at least a basic credits page for every musician who has album credits at all. Bearcat (talk) 16:42, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Having a page for every musician isn't the same as 'covering' every musician. They don't tend to write about minor acts of only local interest. The BBC and Billboard also seems to have a 'page' for every artist - that doesn't make the BBC and Billboard useless for establishing notability either. --Michig (talk) 16:55, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Additional Degrassi - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1326445/soundtrack, Traynor Amps - http://traynoramps.com/artists/c/chris_colepaugh/, Ben Rod Electric - http://www.benrod-electro.fr/html/fr/artistes__1/Chris-Colepaugh-Cosmic-Crew,-Shania-Twain_19.html, ... I am having difficulty finding a copy of the Relix Review online, but I have a digital scanned copy, Music Producer of the Year - https://www.telegraphjournal.com/telegraph-journal/story/48986664/capital-region-artists-fare?source=story-related, http://www.chartattack.com/news/2007/12/18/joel-plaskett-emergency-declared-at-ecma-nominees-announcement/ ... I will work on it this week to update it properly and adhere to the guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ldaigle (talk • contribs) 12:24, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that notability, for the purposes of qualifying for a Wikipedia article, cannot be supported by YouTube videos, blogs, primary sources or IMDb — which means that the vast majority of the links you provided in that wall of text above aren't helping anything. Bearcat (talk) 19:24, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Bearcat. What would be the best page to understand the articles that can be used. I have found several pages, but I am not sure I am on the correct one.

Here is states: Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself.[note 1] This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, online versions of print media, and television documentaries[note 2] except for the following: Any reprints of press releases, other publications where the musician or ensemble talks about themselves, and all advertising that mentions the musician or ensemble, including manufacturers' advertising.[note 3] Works consisting merely of trivial coverage, such as articles that simply report performance dates, release information or track listings, or the publications of contact and booking details in directories. Articles in a school or university newspaper (or similar), in most cases.

http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/Canadian-Pride_-New-Gibson-Art.aspx - the official Gibson guitar page / Chris is endorsed by Gibson http://canadianmusician.com/showcase/2003/03/ - Canadian Musician is a National Magazine in Canada http://torontoexclusive.com/awards2007/provincialnominees.html - official award announcement for Toronto Exclusive Awards http://www.earshot-online.com/charts/index.cfm?intChartTypeID=101&dWeekOfID=2016-02-16 - Top 50 Campus Radio ( Earshot is the National Campus and Community Radio Report) For the ECMA awards, there is no archive. I can find an old press release on their site for Entertainer Of The Year and Rock Artist of the Year - http://ecma.com/news/the-trews-chris-colepaugh-the-crew-david-myles-rose-cousins-pick-up-second-music-award-at-ecma

Would another wiki count as a reliable source? http://degrassi.wikia.com/wiki/Lost_in_Love_(1)#Featured Music - for music placement

http://top100canadianblog.blogspot.ca/2016/03/music-review-of-day-chris-colepaugh-and.html - album review http://artsnb.ca/site/en/files/2015/05/Pan-Am-2015_EN.pdf - announcement of performance at Pan Am Games in Toronto 2015 through the Government Agency Arts NB

Also mention in the Daniel Pearl World Music Days as Producer/Guitarist - http://www.danielpearlmusicdays.org/artist_detail.php?id=116 Roch Voisine - http://info-culture.biz/2011/02/28/roch-voisine-et-sa-tournee-americana-quebec-tour/ Working with Kevin Scott MacMichael - http://jam.canoe.com/Music/Pop_Encyclopedia/M/MacMichael_Kevin.html Fontana/Universal - http://www.fontananorth.com/?p=313 http://extreme-vidz.com/mtb/break-cycle - Break The Cycle - film placement http://www.mainstagecases.com/artists.html - Mainstage Cases Endorsement http://www.contacteast.ca/about/awards-and-nominations.php - Winner of Contact East Touring Award https://open.spotify.com/track/1GC6IFVGkUriDhtHvu2W6T - 270,088 spins on Spotify https://www.musicnb.org/en/festival-506/mnb-awards - Music Nominations - MNB Producer Of The Year, SOCAN Songwriter of the Year, MNB ROck Recording of the Year, MNB Musician of the Year https://www.telegraphjournal.com/times-transcript/story/48496672/music-nb-releases-awards - MNB Group, SOCAN & Album

Finding the online source material for a lot of the articles/videos is a challenge! Would you have a suggestions to get links to archival newspaper interviews/reviews etc? Thank you! I also can't find a copy of the Relix article, but I have a copy of the page - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f2sxe4g5sy6ttag/AABSK8GueIV9QdRMU_s5P8pia?dl=0 https://www.telegraphjournal.com/telegraph-journal/story/100334035/ - Performance with Matt Andersen

For one thing, exactly no number of listens or views on any internet streaming platform constitutes a notability claim at all — we care about media coverage, not numbers of listens on Spotify or Soundcloud, or numbers of views on YouTube or number of subscribers on Facebook.
And when it comes to our reliable sourcing, what we're talking about is media coverage in newspapers, magazines and books, not just "any website at all that mentions his name". For example, having an endorsement relationship with a musical instrument manufacturing company does not support notability, if your source for that relationship is the website of that company — a source has to represent media coverage, fully independent of any direct affiliation with either party to that relationship. It is not okay just because it's technically independent of Colepaugh, because it isn't independent of the company with which he has a business relationship. And by the same token, an award nomination is only notable if and when media write about that award's nominations as news — it is not notable if the source you provide is that award's own self-published website about itself, because the extent to which media do or don't care about that award is the definition of whether that award is notable enough to get its nominees over NMUSIC's award-nomination criterion or not. And playing at any music event or festival only supports notability if it's referenced to media coverage about his performance, and not if your reference for that appearance is the festival's own self-published website about itself. And on and so forth: to count toward notability, a reference has to be media coverage about the distinction being claimed, not the website of any person or organization or event with any form of direct relationship to the thing being claimed. Bearcat (talk) 17:00, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • UpdateI have connected with someone who knows a lot more about Wikipedia than I, and they are helping me rewrite it - with attention paid to all the requirements. I just need a bit more time to finalize and get the updated version up for review.
  • Very weak keep Wow, those are a lot of references—most of them merely reaffirming existence more than anything else. While I’m a bit troubled that what this subject has accomplished—routine and trivial press, minor awards, small-time airplay, recording and performance history—fails to measure on a scale that would convey significance under most people’s definition of notability, I nonetheless cede to rules of wikipedia criteria. Among the clutter are a few solid sources (such as a review in Relix) that convey’s credible recognition and helps this subject squeak through. This would be an easier “keep” if there was some indication of success (such as chart/sales, perhaps?) or recognition other than “rave reviews” from unimportant sources. That Allmusic profile is unfortunately written in the same kind of advertorial tone they are guilty of increasingly allowing by relying on submitted content rather than doing their own original research. Both it and this wikipedia page could benefit from editing out the hype. Still, there are enough credible sources, even if the coverage therein is trivial, to craft an okay article. Glad to see in this updated comment section that someone is presently working on it. ShelbyMarion (talk) 17:59, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep  I sampled one of the sources found by Ldaigle, and found this quote, "For two decades now Chris Colepaugh has been a staple of the Moncton music scene, an anniversary that he, along with his Cosmic Crew, will be marking with the release of their ninth, and possibly best, studio album ‘RnR’. Having been first introduced to this group with their third album, 16 Second Solace I’ve had the pleasure to watch them grow from early in their career and they just keep getting stronger with each offering."  Unscintillating (talk) 00:45, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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