Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Choo Choo Bar

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:11, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Choo Choo Bar[edit]

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Choo Choo Bar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (companies) requirement. WP:BEFORE reveals a few mentions in passing but no in-depth, independent, reliable coverage. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:24, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 10:48, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 10:48, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 10:49, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - fails GNG - I can't find any sources. Apparently there is a bar in Wisconsin called the Choo Choo Bar, though. I would say redirect to company, but it doesn't seem to have a page, so... ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ᐐT₳LKᐬ 12:29, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment a WP:BEFORE search using only search engines was difficult. I did find: [1]. Nothing from newspapers.com though, but it's very possible this product was covered in the past. SportingFlyer T·C 02:06, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep Many reliable references and cultural importance:
The subject is referred to in arts and literature:
The subject is considered to be part of Australian folklife by academia and Government enquiries:
  • https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/192871116 https://monash.figshare.com/ndownloader/files/7682386
  • https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/32660202?q&versionId=39806601 Committee of Inquiry into Folklife in Australia, 1987, p. 110
  • "Saving the intangible heritage". The Canberra Times. Vol. 62, no. 19, 192. Australian Capital Territory, Australia. 23 April 1988. p. 23. Retrieved 25 March 2019 – via National Library of Australia.
The subject is formally held in state library image collections:
The subject is described iconically andis used as a cultural reference point:
  • "SWITCHING CHANNELS". The Canberra Times. Vol. 65, no. 20, 275. Australian Capital Territory, Australia. 15 October 1990. p. 26. Retrieved 25 March 2019 – via National Library of Australia.
  • "What the sweets rated". The Canberra Times. Vol. 62, no. 19, 135. Australian Capital Territory, Australia. 25 February 1988. p. 26. Retrieved 25 March 2019 – via National Library of Australia.
  • "Sweet dreams of you". The Canberra Times. Vol. 62, no. 19, 135. Australian Capital Territory, Australia. 25 February 1988. p. 26. Retrieved 25 March 2019 – via National Library of Australia.
And more here.
Broad ranging sustained coverage in highly reliable sources. Aoziwe (talk) 10:04, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That's impressive research, but please note we need in-depth coverage. What you have shown is that the subject is mentioned in passing in few literary pieces. Your first set of links seems to be about an "Essay by Larissa Hjorth." That essay is not even about the bar, it mentions it in passing (in a single sentence of the poem-essay, it mentions the bar: "Memory has left a Choo-choo bar flavour in her mouth." [2] mentions in the subject in passing, just listing it with some other products; it is not even clear if the subject is considered to be really important or if it is a joke. That the candy bar is displayed in a museum [3] to illustrate, among with a bunch of other products, sample "Plaistowe's confectionery, October 1972", is not that helpful - the company that makes it may be notable, but the bar is not. If the bar is notable than it itself would be the subject of the exhibition. Not everything in museums is uniquely notable. And all of your other mentions are similar mentions in passing. To quote from one: "The request evoked a lot of memories: of'old-fashioned fruit and nut chocolate", a penchant for "chewers rather than suck ers", "four-a-penny aniseed balls, Choo Choo Bars which made your tongue go dark blue, Fan tales which rip out a filling in one bite" and "Jaffas, especially at the pictures when the old Capitol at Manuka had wooden floors"." I am sorry, but Choo Choo bar seems no more notable than concepts of ear sucking, aniseed balls, and such, and likely less so as at least those are more generalized concepts, but it is just a single product. Bottom line, your list of refs is impressive, but they all fail as they are not in-depth. Sorry, but that's as good as a google-hit count confirming that the subject exists. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:48, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I am not aware that any one reference or any reference has to be in-depth. Notability and verifiabilty just require that sufficient independent reliable material exists so that a sufficiently in-depth article can be written. The above demonstrates that a sufficiently in-depth article can be written. Aoziwe (talk) 11:55, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:GNG. In-depth means significant. None of the refs you provided is a significant treatment of the topic, in fact they all fall square under passing (trivial) mentions. How are we supposed to use the fiction-line that some character felt "a Choo-choo bar flavour in her mouth" as a source for this article? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:16, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It is a perfect reference for use in a section such as "In literature'. It also indicates a cultural focal point used by an author. Aoziwe (talk) 10:46, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I also suggest that they are not passing mentions, brief certainly, but the authors have gone to specific effort to refer to the subject, and to actually make a point using the subject. Aoziwe (talk) 10:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's hardly perfect WP:OR (to say that the subject has cultural significance; no source says this) or at least the use of WP:PRIMARY (to say that the subject has been mentioned in a single literary work). It's one thing if the poem or essay would be about the subject. But it isn't, the subject is just mention in passing. How more in passing can you get? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:38, 28 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep based on Aoziwe's research. SportingFlyer T·C 15:42, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Did you look at my rebuttal of those sources? Do you consider them to constitute significant coverage of the subject? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:38, 28 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Not all of them, but keep in mind they did post a link showing a number of mentions in reliable Australian newspapers just in this decade alone, which I couldn't find in my before search. SportingFlyer T·C 08:30, 28 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jovanmilic97 (talk) 22:44, 29 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Seems to be a popular chocolate bar in Australia. I found couple of additional reference and have added them.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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