Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chinky (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Chink#United Kingdom. The history remains for a merge, which can be done editorially. Star Mississippi 14:08, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Chinky

AfDs for this article:

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

But you wrote this‽: I rescued this in 2007 when it was nominated for deletion. At the time it looked like this and was about some slang. I rewrote it to be about a type of restaurant, on the basis that this appeared to be the common name for that type of restaurant in the U.K. and it then looked like this. There was no mention of slang.
But it's about slang now‽: People keep trying to bring back the rubbish. I tried to keep this focussed on the type of restaurant and put the stuff about the name, which I was even the one who provided actually sourced content on, as a parenthetical aside, so that it then looked like this. A year later when it was re-nominated for deletion it was because random editors had put it back to being about slang rather than about a type of restaurant. The small amount of stuff that I had written about the restaurants's cuisine, which I had little doubt could be expanded upon, had been blanked by vandals, so I put it back in. Discussion of the cuisine got removed again for — bizarrely — being irrelevant to the class of resurant whose cuisine it was (sic!), a year later. And we were back to nothing but my originally parenthetical side discussion of the slang name again, rather than the type of restaurant.
Surely you can rescue this again?: It would be foolish to do so. It's a slang title, and experience shows (very notably from the edit history of this article) that slang names are not proper article titles. Back in 2007 we didn't have a Chinese restaurant article. We only had the disambiguation that is now at Chinese restaurant (disambiguation), which was all that we had on Chinese restaurants until 2011. We didn't have a Chinese takeaway article and it redirected to the U.S. generic take-out at the time. And it wasn't until 13 years later that we gained British Chinese cuisine. If I were writing any of the content (such as about the cuisine of Chinese restaurants in the U.K., not that we need my start-off edits any more on that subject) that I wrote then, today, I'd put it in those articles with non-slang titles, and put the discussion of whether "chink" and "chinky" are pejoratives in the U.K. in the chink article. We have properly systematized this in the intervening 16 years, and have non-slang-titled articles now.
So what about a redirect?: This article is a massive attractive nuisance, and people cannot stop writing about slang, even when they clearly know where the article on the slang is. It could redirect to chink, but that is going to fall afoul of Project:Redirect#Neutrality of redirects. And I predict that it would be back to a rubbish unsourced article about slang within a couple of years. But the biggest argument against it is that, contrary to my research in 2007, it seems that Chinese restaurants in the U.K. aren't even commonly known as "chinky"s. They are known as Chinese restaurants and Chinese takeaways. The picture at right is one of many.
But, but, but … it's sourced!: Some of it is. I know. I wrote pretty much all of the sourced parts apart from just one extra sentence about slang from one of the foolish editors who tried to make it all about slang yet again in its history and a second small addition about slang. Everything else is the same sort of unsourced rubbish that got this article nominated for deletion twice already.
Shouldn't you tell the article writer that you nominated it for deletion?: I consider myself notified.

Uncle G (talk) 12:51, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Food and drink, Language, Discrimination, and United Kingdom. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 14:05, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Convert to a disambiguation page. Link to the slur and the Chinese restaurant articles and most likely some people who have as a nickname or different spelling (Chinki Yadav). Love the intrapersonal communication style nomination. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 20:59, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- The problem with that idea is that all of the supposedly conflicting redirect targets are invalid, and the disambiguation cleanup people would object to them. "Chinki" is not "Chinky", the slur is not neutral and uncommon, and the restaurants are not neutral and uncommon and not really an established alternative name outwith slang usage (as challenged in the edit history of chink as far back as 2007). Amusingly, the fact that you copied my and another's writing in 2022 into chink alongside the ever-churning unsourced rubbish in chinky as it stood at the time, some of which was about "chink" in the sources (including the OfCom document and the contemporaneous reporting of the OfCom document), outright tells us that even the redirect chinky → chink is unsupported as a common name. There have been numerous objections to this as an alternative name actually edited into the article over the years (many reverted as vandalism). It has been nominated for deletion twice, and merger twice. This isn't a "main article". This is a best-of-a-bad-situation article from 2007 when we had no alternatives and nothing about Chinese takeaways nor British Chinese cuisine, which we've long since superseded with other proper articles, and it's time for it to go. Uncle G (talk) 02:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If it is part of culture it should have some mention on Wikipedia. It is in the Oxford Dictionary of Slang as both a slur and a restaurant. That is a stronger evidence of significance then most slang that gets pushed for inclusion. However, I would like to see other opinions and perhaps I will change my mind. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 08:15, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Chink and Chinese restaurant as appropriate. Redirect to Chink#United Kingdom. People certainly still do use the term for Chinese takeaways in the UK, but in my experience it's now generally older people who always have done and have a hard time seeing something they've always used as offensive. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:17, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and redirect per Necrothesp. It would be non-neutral to have Chinky be a redirect to Chinese people, but in this case it's a synonym for a term that itself is offensive. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 17:20, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per Necrothesp. Let's be done with such sorry bagatelles. -The Gnome (talk) 13:56, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.