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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Nomination withdrawn in light of sources found and content which now asserts notability. ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 19:27, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Chieko Higuchi

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Chieko Higuchi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL and Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non notable biography. Lacks sources which indicate real significance of this person. I don't see it as a vitally important article. Besides it says practically nothing about the career but cites a conflict they encountered in NYC. This to me is not notable. ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 18:31, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Three of those roles (in Amaenaideyo!!, To Heart, and Azumanga Daioh) are lead roles, which cna be readily sourced. For the last, I've even seen reviews commenting on the character's voice acting. That would seem to be enough to make her pass WP:ENTERTAINER, and so keep. Whether to include the poorly sourced incident is an editorial decision. —Quasirandom (talk) 00:08, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Is Mount Fuji a lake? What do you think? ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 13:10, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Um...what? Now you're making no sense at all. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:44, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Her filmography shows that she has voices several major characters in several notable television series, films, and an OVA, so she passes WP:ENTERTAINER with no problems what so ever. A voice actor/actress with such credentials are usually covered by one of the many Japanese voice acting magazine. Unfortunately, these magazines aren't easily accessible outside of Japan. —Farix (t | c) 01:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • No vote I'm just here to slap trout some editors who sucked at sourcing & assessing article whatever Excellent they are elsewhere they sucked here. Get serious people whatever it Keep or Delete try to get a full picture of the situation before casting a vote. AfD is more a Big Deal than giving admin tools so "Bureaucratic Handling" of case based on article misleading appearance, cultural bias, ethnic bias, religious bias, sexual orientation bias, political bias, high & low culture assumption bias and others i like it or not is not acceptable. Get serious or don't vote. --KrebMarkt 07:18, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Whom or what exactly are you referring to? I don't follow. ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 13:28, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Not you. You did what you felt right and acted by the book which is worth respect and appreciation. You should remain oblivious on the ins and outs of my "No vote" unless you want to taste bitterness. --KrebMarkt 14:04, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Trout slap, what for thinking that 1100 articles on Japanese seiyu, mostly short unreferenced stubs with nothing but a bunch of anime lists and few solid reliable encyclopedia articles on the web are a pile of crap? You trout slap editors for making obviously incorrect proposals, just like the editor who proposed deleting all of the BLPs even articles like Roberta Flack. I resent your remark. If these articles are so notable, why can't anybody actually write anything about them? KrebMarkt has explained to me the reasons that there are few editors working on them which I understand and symphasise with but the fact is nobody is even trying to write about these people. People are swarming to keep this but are unwilling to actually write anything decent about it. ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 12:40, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
First, there are no WP:DEADLINEs. Simply because an article is a stub and has been a stub for a while doesn't mean that it should be deleted. Instead, they should be expanded. However, other editors have already explained the language hurtals that slows the development of these types of articles. Also, you didn't do a good job, if any, at checking if the voice actors would passed WP:ENT. If a subject can pass any of the notability guidelines, than the subject may have an article on it. If you can't assess if these groups of articles pass the notability guidelines, then you shouldn't be nominating them for deletion. And finally, if you want something fixed, fix it yourself instead of complaining that other editors aren't working on the problems. Your complaining doesn't help anything and makes you look like a whiner. —Farix (t | c) 14:13, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There is no WP:DEADLINE is a pathetic excuse to justify contentless unreferenced BLPs. I am whining , I think the fact that 36 year old men who want an encyclopedia to be plagued with thousands of articles about kids cartoons, especially without solid sources and information is the more embarrassing. ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 14:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If the problem is references, then search for them. Most VAs have profiles form their agencies, which is the best place to start. After that, check the official websites of their most recent performances and work backwards. The fact that you are complaining about articles on "kids cartoons", even when those articles pass the notability guidelines, and calling it "embarrassing" shows your bias against this particular subject area. —Farix (t | c) 14:42, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This is exactly what I did Farix. I googled this person in english and Japanese and could not find any decent sources other than fan blogs or dubious anime websites. These are not traditional encyclopedic sources. Notability is determined by extensive coverage in reliable sources and publications. Where is the widespread coverage of these people in mainstream Japanese newspapers and magazines other than specialist material related to anime and manga? I failed to to find any such sources, and the fact that even now nobody can even string a few encyclopedic sentences together about this person indicates to me that there is little to write about the actual biography. We are not imdb and just list appearances/credits of a person. As for showing bias against cartoons, I support the actual articles on a manga series or cartoon. Where I draw the line is that fan crufters think it is appropriate to have an article on every Pokemon charatcer and fictional charatcer in these series, an article about every video game developer or designer and articles about any voice actor who ever provided a voice to any series, regardless of whether the character was minor or barely appeared onscreen. If you are interested in anime, that's cool with me if that is your interest, but I do not think an encyclopedia is the place for overindulgence on articles related to popular culture if no solid sources can be found. All I'm saying is that when you mention wikipedia to many professionals and scholars they roll their eyes at our coverage of kids topics and believe it reflects a great deal about the age of our users and wrongly think the entire encyclopedia is only compiled by kids and distrust it as a credible site. To me, if I came across this article in a random search and the only information I see is "She is in the two-person group "Whoops!!" with Maaya Sakamoto and a list of titles this information appears as very trivial and unencyclopedic. ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 14:53, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Also, note I am not opposed in general to having articles about voice actors. As with actors I think many of them are notable and have widespread coverage in books and mainstream magazines and can have decent encyclopedic articles written about them. My concern above all is the lack of reliable solid publications that widely discuss people such as Chieko Higuchi other than fan blogs and fan sites. I spot one tiny mention in a credible book about anime. No other hits. No coverage in google news either. ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 15:21, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Based on how easy it was to find a few references (her agency profile was already linked in the article), I seriously doubt you did a good search. And there is more than one bar for inclusion than just WP:NOTE. To quote the three criteria from WP:ENT: "[The subject] has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions", "has a large fan base or a significant 'cult' following", and "has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment." Higuchi clearly meets the first criteria, so all that is left is the matter of sourcing. But also, the current state of a biography is not a reason to deleted. It is a reason to fix it. If you can't fix it, then ask others if they can fix it. But don't waste everyone else's time on a pointless AfD. —Farix (t | c) 15:31, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If the article was written like Maaya Sakamoto and claimed notability with some decent inline text references and information I probably would not have nominated this. There are no other hits in google books. Covergae in reliable book sources are always a good indicator of notability. This is lacking, severely in this department. ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 15:35, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Except that Japanese-language entertainment-related books are not covered well on Google Books, so that's a poor indicator to use when determining if the person is notable. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:44, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Possibly, but there should be numerous reliable publications covering her online, evne mainstream Japanese newspapers/magazines. Please cite me 5-10 reliable solid publications that could be used to write this article Nippon Joe. ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 17:58, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
All that is required is that the contents of the article is sourced and that the subject passes one or more of the notability guidelines. The sourcing has been fixed, thanks largely to KrebMarkt (talk · contribs), and the article now shows that the subject passes WP:BK, that is as far as we need to go for this AfD. Everything else can be fixed later as there are no WP:DEADLINEs. —Farix (t | c) 18:25, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If you were familiar with this topic area, you would know that online copies of newspaper articles is still quite rare in Japan. Online copies of magazine articles is even more rare. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:47, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am not familiar with this topic area, you're right. Japan seems to be world leader in most things technical! You'd expect them to have decent online content about these people. Actually in looking hard at her roles, I can see how this voice artist might be considered notable by fans of the various series. I've tried to make the article look half decent, thanks to sources found by Kreb. I did find some reliable books about some of the series she has voiced in which is now along the right track. But there are far too many articles on here about such subjects which do not assert their notability. A massive cleanup/improvement job is needed if your articles are to be taken seriously. Nomination withdrawn ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 19:06, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, you would expect that, but you would be disappointed. Japan is several years behind the United States when it comes to utilizing the internet for things such as that. I recommend noting your withdrawal at the top of the nomination as well. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:17, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to rant at you all but I really think the current state of many of the related articles is not a true testament to how notable they are. It is very frustrating to go through categories with thousands of articles and find one liners with a list and no solid sources. To the casual eye and with a google search which turns up a lot of fan sites rather than credible publications you'd expect leaves a poor impression in my mind. Given the following of anime-manga I'd really like to see more decently written articles about them, less in universe details and an attention to reliable sourcing to improve their credibility. I hope the project will recruit more people and work hard at improving the quality and asserting notability of this topic in the future so it rises above a lot of other popular culture related content we have on here. Regards ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 19:28, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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