Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cereo

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. MBisanz ^talk 00:13, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cereo[edit]

Unverifiable product of questionable notability. The sole source is a dead link, and even if it did once work, not clear that it's a reliable source. My searches for alternative sources return only Wikipedia mirrors. Jfire (talk) 02:07, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This was the first manufactured baby food with a brand name. This counts as notable. The reference did work in the past so is potentially verifiable, although we cannot verify this online. The ref was from a real estate agent that may have had a conflict of interest, but no reason to lie. This article is from the WP:AFC process, so the original contributor 192.203.40.2 from July 2006 is probably not around. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 02:15, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment updated location seems to be [1]. "Deming House: Built in 1790. Macy Deming manufactured first baby food, Cereo, here." I do not believe this constitutes a RS for the claim that this was the first manufactured baby food with a brand name. Jfire (talk) 02:16, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. -- the wub "?!" 13:56, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I suppose it might be SYN, but if it was the first manufactured baby food (per cite) and it had a brand name, it is not that big a stretch to also say it was the first manufactured baby food with a brand name. Deming's heirs were notable in nutrition studies it appears [2] etc. as examples. Verifiable product, and cited in medical studies. Collect (talk) 15:22, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - link worked for me. Because of the subject (a "first") it could be argued that this is indeed notable. Keep in mind that there's a difference between "well known" and notable. A product, or a person, or whatever, may have become less "well known" because of the mists of time, but that doesn't make it any less notable. AKRadecki^Speaketh 16:15, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment My research hasn't turned up any reliable source evidence that Cereo was in fact the "first baby food", first "manufactured" baby food, first baby food with a "brand name" or any other notable "first". Wikipedia's article doesn't list it, this page doesn't list it, it's not mentioned in this "History of the Development of Infant Formulas," or here. The "Baby Food" article in The Oxford Encyclopedia of Food and Drink in America does not mention it, instead crediting Henri Nestlé with creating "the first artificial infant food". Others credit Justus von Liebig's "Liebig’s food for infants" as the first commercially produced baby food. In summary, we have zero reliable source evidence for the article's claim. Our sole source is one gramatically incorrect sentence on a relators website, which in fact does not even support the article's claim. "Macy Deming manufactured first baby food, Cereo, here." Perhaps that was meant to read "Macy Deming manufactured her first baby food, Cereo, here." In any case the source is miles away from meeting WP:RS, and the reliable sources we do have refute the claim. Jfire (talk) 17:34, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - I've updated the source of that information, which actually comes from the Tappantown Historical Society's paper-published guide to the historical section of that town. I think this gives the source a bit more credibility. I have also contacted the historical society to see if they have any old publications on file that would provide more information. AKRadecki^Speaketh 18:09, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect - I recommend redirecting to Baby food, adding a section with the journal reference I just added to the article. I cannot find a reliable source that would support the claim of being the first manufactured baby food, but I think it does have historical value. I have no problem doing this, once the AfD closes. There are a lot of available references to this company on Google Books, and in some cases it seems that "cereo" was a sort of generic name brand as well, which would also indicate notability. §FreeRangeFrog 18:33, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - About the "generic name brand", looking closer it seems it was considered a dextrinizing agent as well. §FreeRangeFrog 18:37, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I do see some good search results for "Cereo Company". Perhaps the best course would be to rename to Cereo Company and include coverage of the product but remove the "first baby food" claim. Jfire (talk) 19:12, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Here's a source, that comes close to discussing what Deming developed, and claims: "These products were the forerunners of America's first commercial infant formulas." [3]. In light of this, it could be argued that this historical society's note on the house should be interpreted that Deming first created the material at this location, rather than the material being the first actual production baby food. As such, I think the idea of a move to Cereo Company and detailing this research might be better than just a claim of "first". AKRadecki^Speaketh 19:20, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Found a book reference that supports the claim as America's first, and added the citation and quote to the article. (Many thanks to Mary Cardenas of the Tappantown Historical Society for researching this and faxing me the relevant pages!) Despite my striking out part of my previous comment, I still support a move to the new and an expansion of the article, as there are enough refs to accomplish this. AKRadecki^Speaketh 19:20, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.