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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. General consensus to keep. (non-admin closure) sst✈(conjugate) 06:56, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Car song[edit]

Car song (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Unsourced and not a common term. I could be convinced it's a list. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:07, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. - no sources, no indication that it's anything other than the article creator's own invented term. Even as a list, the term would be ridiculously broad - there's probably hundreds of thousands of songs that mention cars. Rockypedia (talk) 15:15, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. sst✈ 15:56, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. sst✈ 15:56, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I nearly went with delete but I believe a workable article can be spun out of this. Regarding the possible size of a list, sure there are a lot of songs, but if we use our usual guidelines and restrict entries to those deemed to be good car songs by reliable sources (example), it probably doesn't come out as much. I'm also thinking things like this could be covered, as I see "car song" and "driving song" as synonyms to some extent. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:25, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep There's clearly a notable topic here. Here's another source: Early Songs: Romance and the Road. Andrew D. (talk) 18:19, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment - Does not appear to use the term. UW Dawgs (talk) 17:40, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • That is totally irrelevant. This is an encyclopedia about things, not a dictionary about words, so there is no distinction to be made between a source that contains the phrase "car song" and one that contains the phrase "songs about cars". 86.17.222.157 (talk) 22:58, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Certainly related to hot rod rock, but there are plenty of reliable sources dealing with the car song. I found the following in a quick search through Google Books: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5].--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 16:17, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'll just go ahead and say merge the content of the "hot rod rock" section in surf music into this article, per the following sources (as well as others): [6], [7], [8].--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 18:21, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. This article is full of unreferenced opinion and it is almost impossible to make it anything else. For starters songs metnioning cars have been written and been successful since the introduction of cars. From WP, I give you one example from 1905, In My Merry Oldsmobile, together with a quote from the article, "The song's chorus is one of the most enduring automobile-oriented songs. The verses, which are slightly suggestive (by 1905 standards) and contain quaint terms for lovemaking, are seldom heard today" So the question is, is it a song about "lovemaking" or a car? Taking another song, which is mentioned in the article, Mustang Sally, where the lyrics read, "You been runnin' all over town now/Oh I guess I have to put your flat feet/On the ground" Now that reads like a song about promiscuity, not motor cars. Cars used as euphemisms in songs. Keep on trucking. --Richhoncho (talk) 10:24, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This article needs to better define the term "car song." Per my arguments above, it seems that the "car song" genre is synonymous with "hot rod rock," and can be defined by reliable sources.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 18:21, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Ritchie333 & 3family6. --MurderByDeletionism"bang!" 18:06, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Unless this just becomes a list of songs about cars, I don't see the use of this article. It isn't an actual genre (like hot-rod music), it fails to mention any history or any example of a "car song" before the 1950s. Just because a band wrote a song about a car does not mean it was part of some sort of "car song" craze. My point is this article is too broad with no actual evidence to back up its worth. A hot-rod music page would be nice though.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 19:06, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Another comment - it's also worth mentioning cars in songs are actually associated with surf rock and the California sound, both of which are clearly mentioned in detail.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 19:09, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
TheGracefulSlick and Richhoncho, if the article were refined to deal mainly with just that, the hot rod rock scene associated with surf rock and the California sound as well as any additional songs that reliable sources consider part of the "car song" or "hot rod" genre, would you agree to keep the article?--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 03:43, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
3family6 my main concern is this article has nothing to do with the hot-rod genre and "car song" isn't even a musical genre, so it would be best to delete it. Nothing is useful from the article and it has a total lack of direction. Hot-rod music is a subgenre that is known to exist primarily in the 1950s and early-1960s. A "car song" is not automatically relevant to such an article. The only way to save this article, in my opinion, is making it a list.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 04:21, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
3family6, If you intend to make it hot-rod relevant this article might as well be moved to a draft space because the name is wrong. The underlying problem of articles and categories by lyrical content is that you cannot find independent information to confirm that it is about a hot rod etc. As I pointed out the singer may have bought Sally a Mustang, but it NOT about a car. I would be pleased if there is an editor that can prove me wrong. --Richhoncho (talk) 19:21, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The article title might be correct - I'm not sure which is more common in reliable sources "hot rod rock" or "car song" - both seem to be used highly frequently. The article as is probably should be moved to draft space, as it needs to be entirely reworked. There is a genre called "car song", the same way that there are murder ballads, but, looking at several reliable sources, this "car song" genre seems to indistinguishable from "hot rod rock". However, I agree that just any song that mentions cars, or is even about cars, does not qualify - the article should be restricted to songs explicitly considered "car songs" in reliable sources.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 19:50, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The murder ballad article has prose sections: description of the genre, history and cultural references sections. All of these sections are referenced. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:26, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - This is notable for inclusion as part of this encyclopedia, by the coverage found in the sources from 3family6.The Cross Bearer (talk) 03:34, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 07:02, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as this is certainly encyclopedia material and be improved if needed. SwisterTwister talk 03:30, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Came here to see if this could use an NAC, but not yet, I suppose; so keep, per Ritchie333. Vanamonde93 (talk) 00:40, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 01:02, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per everyone above me - It's certainly a notable topic and I'd imagine there's tons of news sources & books if one digs deep enough, It does need improvement but as I said it's notable topic. –Davey2010Talk 17:07, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Davey2010: It's not your job to imagine that there are sources, it's your job to find the sources. It's the sources that determine if a topic is notable, not your imagination. Now that we have your option, please offer some fact. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:32, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Walter Görlitz - I disagree .... I firmly believe it is my job to imagine sources are everywhere and I also believe my imagination does determine notability!.... (Yeah I was meant to have revisited this later and ended up forgetting..., Let me see what I can find!). –Davey2010Talk 19:47, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I expanded the article and greatly re-worked it. While it certainly could be developed more, and the last section is just a list, it is in a much better shape than it was before. It now deals with the "car song" as a style, with citations to reliable sources.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 03:51, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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