Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Canoe Place station

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus was stronger for some articles in this batch nomination than others, but on the whole it lent towards keep or redirect and I'm not going to attempt to unpick each one individually. – Joe (talk) 13:59, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Canoe Place station

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Canoe Place station (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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• Bartlett's station
• Fire Place station
• Miller Place station
• Promised Land station
• Rocky Point station

Minor closed railroad stations without indication of notability. I cannot find any significant coverage of any of them, nor is it likely to exist: none survived into the public ownership era (with attendant coverage in government documents), none have surviving station building, and none are proposed for reopening. The only sources in the articles are fan sites and trivial mentions. For all, I would support keeping redirects to the relevant rail lines. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 23:23, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Keep Bartlett and Fireplace stations as those seem to be the most notable based on the current sources i do believe that it is possible to find information about the other stations as well so if the article creator is reading you can stop this afd by doing so NotOrrio (talk) 22:31, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Source analysis

Canoe Place: Fan site with a total of 17 words about the station. Not significant coverage, and questionable reliability. Bartlett's: Same fan site with one paragraph. Maybe significant coverage, still questionable reliability. Dead link to a different fan site with one sentence, that contradicts the sentence cited to it in the article. Not significant coverage, and questionable reliability. 1852 book that - again contrary to the article - does not actually mention the station 1852 timetable that shows the station. Reliable, but not significant coverage. Dead link to an 1873 map that shows the station. Reliable, but not significant coverage. Mention of a collection of notes. Not verifiable without additional citation details. Dead link to Wikimapia, which is user-generated and thus not a reliable source. Fire Place: Advertisement of opening. Reliable, not really significant coverage. Timetable that doesn't show the station. Reliable, but obviously not significant coverage. First fan site again, saying it "may be one and the same" as another stations Another timetable that doesn't show the station Miller Place: NYT article that does not mention the station. Reliable, but not significant coverage. External links include some fan sites with a few sentences each. Maybe significant coverage, still questionable reliability. Promised Land: First fan site again. Maybe significant coverage, still questionable reliability. Rocky Point: Newspaper article that does not mention the station. Reliable, but not significant coverage. 1895 timetable that shows the station. Reliable, but not significant coverage. NYT article that does not mention the station. Reliable, but not significant coverage. Newspaper article that does not mention the station. Reliable, but not significant coverage.

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Transportation and New York. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 23:23, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

  Redirect to each rail line is fine with me. Oaktree b (talk) 01:34, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

How are these not notable? Those fan sites include images of public sources. I strongly disagree with moving to redirect or deleting them. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 01:54, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

None of them have significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources, as is required by WP:NOTABILITY. See the list I made above. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:11, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose deletion. I've not done a detailed look for sources but if these can be expanded they should be kept, if they can't they should be merged and redirected. There is basically never a case for deletion of railway stations that verifiably exist or existed as at the very least they will always merit a redirect to a list entry. Thryduulf (talk) 13:31, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
• Keep Miller Place station and Rocky Point station; redirect Bartlett's station and Fire Place station to Ronkonkoma Branch; redirect Promised Land station and Canoe Place station (I might have to further research the latter) to Montauk Branch. (At the very least, do not delete any.) For the two Port Jefferson Branch stations, I found some significant coverage in this book (a whole chapter dedicated to the Wading River extension), and the stations appear to have been active long enough that additional coverage (including of their closure) is likely to exist. The other three were active for a much shorter period and I could not find comparable significant coverage. Moreover, there are a number of shuttered LIRR stations fitting the nominator's statement, but are not all on equal footing with each other; this AfD is already potentially a WP:TRAINWRECK, so I would propose creating separate AfDs in each case if this is a widespread content issue. ^Complex/_Rational 14:54, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
  • Searching inside that book shows that both Rocky Point and Miller Place only have about 3 sentences each. Potentially useful if other sources are available, but not significant coverage on its own. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:11, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
• Keep the two Port Jeff Branch stations, no comment on the others. Although there may not be coverage in sources just yet, the Wading River Branch has been discussed for restoration and reopening by local residents and politicians from time to time; the most recent conservations focused on a proposed seasonal service during the summer months only to relive chronic congestion on NY 25A. No idea if it will ever happen, but there is at least a possible future for these stations. The others I have a feeling are probably long forgotten about at this point, but I don't know if there might be notable history for them, even if it is from the PRR days. Taking Out The Trash (talk) 18:20, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

• A theoretical possible future does not confer notability if there aren't sources that actually provide significant coverage - that's precisely why WP:CRYSTALBALL exists. There is little if any actual coverage of a restoration in reliable sources, and essentially nothing that discusses Rocky Point or Miller Place in that context. What currently available reliable sources provide significant coverage for these stations? Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:11, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Keep Canoe Place station, Miller Place station and Rocky Point station. Merge and redirect the stations to the articles about their respective LIRR lines. Merge the other stations to the articles about their respective LIRR lines. Namely,  redirect Bartlett's station and Fire Place station to Ronkonkoma Branch; and redirect Promised Land station to Montauk Branch. The two stations on the Port Jefferson Branch may be notable as part of the Wading River Extension, as ComplexRational mentions above, so I'm not 100% sure about these. Even if these two stations don't have their own articles, they could be mentioned in the Port Jeff Branch article. But I don't think any of these articles should be deleted either. – Epicgenius (talk) 14:11, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

I have edited my !vote. My original !vote is here. – Epicgenius (talk) 17:57, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

• Redirect all to their respective lines. There's not much to justify their retention as standalone articles. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 01:16, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
• Keep Canoe Place station, Miller Place station and Rocky Point station. I researched these stations and found additional sources not listed in the source analysis above and incorporated the material into the associated articles. The Canoe Place station appears to have had a much higher ridership compared to other minor LIRR stations and flag stops given the popularity of the Fisherman's Special trains. The Miller Place station played an important role in the development of the town as a resort destination in the early 20th century. There are current plans to renovate the former station house at Rocky Point into a VFW museum as part of a senior housing development. No comment on the other stations. Transpoman (talk) 19:36, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
• Keep Canoe Place station, Miller Place station and Rocky Point station per WP:HEY. No opinion on the others.4meter4 (talk) 16:39, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.