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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete. It is unlikely that the songwriting credit for "Deja Vu" alone, or the contest participation and Eurovision admission alone, would support inclusion, but the existence of multiple points to this effect makes this a permissible outcome. bd2412 T 19:01, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Camilla North[edit]

Camilla North (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Non-notable musician. Her discography can't even be found on norwegiancharts.com. ׺°”˜`”°º×ηυηzια׺°”˜`”°º× 17:38, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 18:03, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 18:03, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 18:03, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Norway-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 18:03, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: WP:TOOSOON, I reckon – the handful of singles that she has put out appear to be self-released on iTunes, Spotify, etc. and haven't charted anywhere. The competitions she has entered are non-notable. She appears to be participating in some kind of qualifying round for Eurovision, but it's not clear whether it's the main Eurovision Song Contest, or even if she is taking part for Norway. In any case, the article is a slightly altered version of the biography on her website so it's really just taken from one primary source, and independent reliable sources appear to be non-existent. Richard3120 (talk) 18:52, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    She's competing to represent San Marino at the Eurovision. ׺°”˜`”°º×ηυηzια׺°”˜`”°º× 18:58, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for confirming that – it's what I thought from reading the external link in the article, but it seemed odd that a Norwegian would represent San Marino... it shouldn't do, considering in the past we've had Americans representing the UK, a Canadian represent Switzerland, and an Australian represent Ireland (twice).
Anyway, that still makes me think this is WP:TOOSOON – if she wins the nomination and takes part in the competition she will probably pass WP:NMUSIC, but right now she doesn't. Richard3120 (talk) 23:00, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep A songwriter with a number 1 on the World Billboard list for "Deja Vu" which is found on the "4 Walls" album of the Korean girl band F (x). I think the nominator may not have realized to search for the Norwegian name "Camilla Norderud" because there is extensive in-depth coverage about her.[1][2][3] She doesn't even need to fulfill the requirements for WP:MUSIC (though she probably would) because she already satisfies WP:GNG due to "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." Lonehexagon (talk) 02:11, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.ba.no/camilla-north-skapte-sin-egen-arbeidsplass/s/5-8-32851
  2. ^ https://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/norsk-modell-og-latskriver-deltar-i-mgp-for-lilleputtstaten-san-marino/69219591
  3. ^ http://sydvesten.no/nyheter/2015/11/13/naert-og-personlig-fra-camilla-north/
I'm not convinced that the Billboard World chart fact gives her notability – she's one of six writers on just one track on the album, and it was the album that made no. 1 on the chart, not the song, so it's pushing it a bit to say she's had a no. 1 hit. But I had read the three references, and they are reliable sources, which is why I'm still on the fence about this nomination. Richard3120 (talk) 04:59, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - indeed songwriter with a number 1 hit. Covers WP:MUSIC.BabbaQ (talk) 07:24, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - you guys seriously keep articles of someone just because they have co-written a non-single song on an album that went #1 in a component chart? I don't think this is nearly enough to make her relevant - one songwriting credit on a song and zero presence in any national charts or even listed in the national chart's website archive. Too soon. ׺°”˜`”°º×ηυηzια׺°”˜`”°º× 18:09, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This biography doesn't need to fulfill the requirements for WP:MUSIC (though it appears it does that too) because she already satisfies WP:GNG due to "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." Lonehexagon (talk) 18:49, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Only thing they covered is literally her attempt at representing San Marino at the Eurovision. If we applied this criteria, all Eurovision national final contestants would deserve their own article. ׺°”˜`”°º×ηυηzια׺°”˜`”°º× 18:58, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
According to Wikipedia's guidelines, anyone with "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject" is eligible for an article. Lonehexagon (talk) 19:10, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And in what world are a couple of websites 'significant coverage'? I googled her name and that's pretty much all that came up. ׺°”˜`”°º×ηυηzια׺°”˜`”°º× 23:11, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
What issue do you have with the established sources? Lonehexagon (talk) 03:39, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
When you can count them on one hand's fingers and aren't even estabilished in all cases, the issue is clear. ׺°”˜`”°º×ηυηzια׺°”˜`”°º× 08:35, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Which guideline do you believe is being broken? Lonehexagon (talk) 13:57, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
the one where you do not understand WP:RS? 104.163.148.25 (talk) 10:35, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There's no need to be rude. It's more helpful for the discussion if you explain why you disagree, or what your particular issues with the sources are. Lonehexagon (talk) 16:56, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The ref to a dead source in no:Camilla North is found in web.archive: Garvik, Bodil (22 September 2008). "Tar mastergrad i låtskriving - bt.no: LokalLokal". Bergens Tidende (in Norwegian). Archived from the original on September 22, 2008. Retrieved 18 February 2018. Sam Sailor 18:03, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Assessment of no-wiki sources? FWIW I don't think NMUSIC is met but GNG is still in question, so I'm not closing.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ansh666 05:42, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Non-notable, the editors arguing for keep are really reaching here. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 16:42, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • You better come up with a better rationale for deletion than simply "non-notable" before commenting on other editors in this AfD. BabbaQ (talk) 01:13, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Additional examples of secondary coverage from independent sources.[1][2] Lonehexagon (talk) 20:07, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.ba.no/demo/camilla-norderud/s/1-41-4295214
  2. ^ https://www.bt.no/kultur/i/7pqp8/Camilla-tok-vare-pa-sjansen
Also her participation in MGP for Eurovision Song Contest is notable per establishing her career as a singer. WP:MUSIC covers that per performance in national televised event. She covers paragraph 10 and 12 at WP:MUSIC as well. She covers paragraph 1 at Composer section at WP:MUSIC. BabbaQ (talk) 09:05, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Participating in the a Eurovision selection doesn't give you automatic notability. ׺°”˜`”°º×ηυηzια׺°”˜`”°º× 14:57, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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