Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cameron Mitchell (singer)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was KEEP. While there is some discussion about whether 1E applies, the consensus is that the subject's notability is broader than the single event of the competition.. Drmies (talk) 02:17, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cameron Mitchell (singer)[edit]

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Contestant from a singing reality show. He doesn't differ from the other eliminated contestants aside from the fact of winning a "fan favorite" quiz which is not nearly enough to call him relevant. I'm going to remind the voters that American Idol, a much more famous and traditional show, doesn't have individual articles for contestants unless they become relevant. Tam001 (talk) 10:54, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I don't feel that this needs to be re-hashed out again. We'd already reached consensus on the talk page. Also, there's no need to delete this article. That was never on the table before. A redirect is perfectly reasonable so as to not lose all of the time and work that went into fixing this article. Once again, please see the talk page for all of the reasoning behind allowing this article to stay live. Thanks.LoriLee (talk) 11:35, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep notable due to secondary sources and is also regionally notable. Unless there is an "American Idol" policy I think it's good to stay. I will provide you a list of non-notables you can nominate if you wish regarding bad punk bands. :) SarahStierch (talk) 12:25, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. —Tom Morris (talk) 13:02, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. —Tom Morris (talk) 13:02, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The subject has received enough significant coverage in reliable sources in the context of his entertainment career as well as the television show. I'm going to remind the nominator that American Idol is not the standard here. /ƒETCH COMMS / 14:15, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Nothing of relevance can be seen on the article, though. Most sources only talk about his stay on the show, and the only information about his nonexistent carrer is about the fact he is unsigned and likes to write about girls. And the American Idol example is perfectly usable - it's a reality show about singing and articles for irrelevant contestants are created (and deleted) all the time for each season, like what's happening on this one. --Tam001 (talk) 00:47, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - I'm not sure what you mean by "nothing of relevance". I'm sure his career as an entertainer is relevant to his biography. As for Idol, it's a completely different type of competition show; regardless, each biography should be judged on its own merits and not those of similar articles. /ƒETCH COMMS / 04:49, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I was prepared to wait and see but since this has now come to AfD I don't have any choice but to support deletion based on Wikipedia policy, although I think redirection to The Glee Project#Contenders is probably a better option. WP:BLP1E very clearly applies here. All of the subject's notability relates directly to his appearance on The Glee Project, most to his voluntary exit from the competition. Of the 14 citations in the current version of the article, all but one directly refers to his appearance (and disappearance) from the program. Only the iTunes reference does not, that simply supports the existence of his EP, which apparently wasn't overly popular until he left The Glee Project. BLP1E says "If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event and if, outside of the event, that person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a low-profile individual, we should generally avoid having an article on them." Clearly, the overwhelming majority of the sources in the article do only cover him in the context of one event (The Glee Project) so we need to determine if he will remain "and is likely to remain, a low-profile individual". Unfortunately, we can't do that. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. However, based on not only American Idol contestants but contestants from every reality series that has ever aired, the likelihood that he will remain a low-profile individual is extremely high, so there is very little reason to keep this article based on policy. In the event that he becomes notable independent of The Glee Project, the article can always be created but at this point he just doesn't meet the notability requirements. While I respect the right of those who have voted to keep this article to vote that way, policy doesn't support it. --AussieLegend (talk) 19:43, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Exactly. --Tam001 (talk) 22:23, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You don't need to say "delete" again. You already implied that in your nomination statement. I've removed the bolded text in case the closing admin happens to be a vote-counter. /ƒETCH COMMS / 23:43, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – WP:BLP1E does not apply here, as that is a policy that was intended to protect people who attracted attention due to their inadvertent association with some crime, natural disaster, or something like that. Once a person has undertaken to appear on a nationally televised reality show, that person is not "low-profile", as they have taken steps to try to attain public recognition. In this particular case, this musician has been the subject of coverage in multiple reliable sources such as the Dallas Observer and The Dallas Morning News, and so meets WP:MUSICBIO criterion #1. These are not passing mentions in articles that are otherwise about the TV show; they are articles about the subject. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 05:11, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Where exactly in WP:BLP1E or WP:1E does it say that it doesn't apply in this case? If it doesn't apply to this person, then it doesn't apply to, for example, a lot of unsuccessful political candidates, who become high profile only for the election period and yet we discourage articles on such people specifically because of BLP1E. And of course it would also not apply to contestants on national and international reality TV programs, yet we discourage articles on these people for the same reason. --AussieLegend (talk) 05:33, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I think it's worth mentioning again that he's been covered by the New York Times. He also was just signed to Atlantic Records, just waiting on a reliable source before adding.LoriLee (talk) 11:53, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - That's interesting. I thought the Atlantic thing wasn't true (or at least, not official). But I'll keep an eye on that. /ƒETCH COMMS / 16:13, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as subject is the focus of multiple articles in reliable third-party sources, crossing both the verifiability and notability thresholds. That articles mention his Glee Project appearance does not invoke BLP1E any more than almost every article about Neil Armstrong mentioning that Apollo 11 thing. (Not that this guy is Neil Armstrong...) - Dravecky (talk) 21:56, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- There's a big difference between Neil Armstrong and this article. Apollo 11 was an event that extended, quite literally, beyond the bounds of this planet. 450 million people (12.4% of the world's population) watched the landing. In many places everything stopped for the event. In Vietnam hostilities even ceased for it. Armstrong has continued to remain notable independent of the event. Apollo 11 is often mentioned, as would be expected for such a globally significant event, but Armstrong is not mentioned only in context of Apollo 11. By comparison, The Glee Project's audience varied between 455,000 and 1.24 million (we don't even have viewer figures for the episode in which Mitchell quit), or only about 0.006-0.017% of the world's population. All of the sources quite heavily discuss Mitchell in the context of The Glee Project so the comparison between him and Neil Armstrong is quite ridiculous. --AussieLegend (talk) 04:25, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - As I said above, he's no Neil Armstrong, but notability is not a competition and a subject need only meet minimal standards for inclusion. Also, if your rationale for deletion is compelling there's no need to personally respond to every !vote. - Dravecky (talk) 03:38, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - You're ignoring BLP1E. As for replying, it doesn't matter how compelling a rationale is, people will ignore it for inexplicable reasons and there is nothing wrong with refuting rationales that are flawed. This is supposed to be a discussion, not just a vote. --AussieLegend (talk) 12:37, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz ^Humbug! 13:48, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – Coverage in several reliable sources establishes topic notability. Northamerica1000 (talk) 00:36, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.