Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/C.W. Jefferys Collegiate Institute shooting

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was userfied to User:FCYTravis/C.W. Jefferys Collegiate Institute shooting. Talk page has also been deleted per G8. -Royalguard11(Talk·Review Me!) 22:47, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion was not listed at WP:AFD and it's probably too late to do so. It should be closed by the next administrator and maybe renominated. Your opinions here probably won't have much effect. Potatoswatter 17:32, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FYI - If like me, you were wondering where the article went, there's a message on the Talk page of the now-deleted article:

Userfied

I've userfied the content at User:FCYTravis/C.W. Jefferys Collegiate Institute shooting for appropriate merging into the article on the C.W. Jefferys Collegiate Institute. FCYTravis 18:19, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

C.W. Jefferys Collegiate Institute shooting

I don't think this particular event deserves to be an article.As a school shooting id would seem notable, but from what I've heard the whole thing is more like a homocide that just happen to take place in a school.One person was killed, no one else was injured and only one bullet was fired.School shootings are more of a random spree killing where several people are killed and injured.And the fact that this event appeared nowwhere on Portal:Current events but the Dawson College shooting in Montreal did so on the main page illustrates the insignificance of this event. Rodrigue 21:15, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Are any of those arguments based in Wikipedia policy? --ElKevbo 21:28, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete this, create an article on the school itself, and merge in the content. Don't get me wrong as I'm generally an inclusionist, but the fact that the school itself doesn't even have article is reason enough for me. -- Phoenix2 ^{(talk, review)} 04:53, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. A sad story, but it was a murder that happened to be at a school, per nom. There aren't generally pages about murders. This is non-notable in the encyclopedic sense, although the murder was certainly notable to those who knew the victim. Flyguy649^talk_contribs 04:59, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Inclusion of a subset of this information or merging into an article about the school might also be appropriate. Flyguy649^talk_contribs 16:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment To answer the previous question, the points of my argument are about Wikipedia:notability, because a school shooing is a notable event, but a single targeted killing that takes place in a school isn't, and not having been anywhere on Wikipedia:Current events shows the lack of notability. Rodrigue 15:51, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your point about notability is valid but your second point about not appearing on the Current events portal indicating a lock of notability seems completely suspect and specious. --ElKevbo 16:37, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I think its a very valid argument.If this was a school shooting, like it claims to be, I would think that type of event would qualify as a current event, just like the Virginia Tech massacre, the Dawson College shooting, and the Amish school shooting over the past year which all appeared at some time on the main page.And the amish school shooting was a very minor event at best, so the fact that it appeared as a current event shows how much significance it had as a school shooting.Rodrigue 17:42, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You can't reference how Wikipedia covers a subject to establish the notability of that or another subject! That's circular, unwise, against the spirit of Wikipedia, and a monstrously slippery slope. --ElKevbo 16:17, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge. Create a new article for the school by moving this article. This article would be the "2007 shooting" section of a school article. I'd do it right now except it may be bad form to do so in mid-discussion. Deleting a current event over notability while it's still current is a risky proposition. This event's notability is strengthened because a) it's in Toronto so it almost de facto becomes a regional/national event due to disproportionate media coverage from national media, b) it's in Toronto, so a gun crime not long after the Year of the Gun may have significance to the gun control debate, c) it's possible that it will result in changes to provincewide school safety policies/practices. I, too, would question whether individual acts of gun violence merit inclusion in Wikipedia. However, current practice is extremely unclear as I see it. School shooting has a good distinction between what is a massacre and what is a isolated event. However, it's messy everywhere else. List of school massacres now redirects to a list of school attacks that even includes suicides that are foiled and nobody gets hurt. It does appear to be going through a major overhaul but even that may not decide this issue. Given this situation, I'd say err on the side of inclusion. Canuckle 11:37, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete this was evidently a targetted homicide, not a random spree shooting. That it occurred in a school makes it no more notable than had it occurred in a park, a bar or a home. Resolute 12:13, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Hmm, at the time of the Taber shooting, it was only the 6th shooting in a school in Canada ever. Since 1999, have things changed so much? Be interesting to know how rare it still is. Is a school shooting more notable than in a bar or a park? Perhaps if it's still rare, it involves children (society seems to think child murders are somewhat inherently notable), the students are in the care of the state unlike a bar...etc. Points to ponder. Canuckle 15:18, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - That article probably lacks enough information to live by itself. It should probably be merged in as well, but i'm not complaining. If an article should exist depends on two things in my opinion: is the event notable enough (which this event passes), but there also has to be enough information for an article. -- Phoenix2 ^{(talk, review)} 16:37, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - The W.R. Myers shooting has the additional notability of being a spree shooing, and coming right on the heels of Columbine, and is generally believed to be a copycat act - even stated as such in the trial of the shooter. The slain boy's father has gone on to become a well known motivational speaker and anti-bullying activist as a result of this incident. The shooing in Toronto lacks all of this, and really, is not likely to have any lasting impact beyond the immediate community. Resolute 05:00, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - Comment: Yes agreed that Taber has signficiant notability and differences. But in 1999, there was an element of surprise that fatal gun violence could occur in a Canadian school. I raised it to ask, does anyone know how many times children or teachers have been shot and killed in elementary or secondary schools in Canada. If Taber was the 6th fatal gun shooting in a Canadian school, what would this Toronto shooting be? The 9th, the 99th? Canuckle 06:23, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletions. -- Canuckle 15:18, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletions. -- Canuckle 15:18, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Was this properly listed? Why can't I find this discussion on the list of active AfDs at User:Dragons_flight/AFD_summary/All? Maybe I'm blind but the earlier lack of an article title has me suspicious. Canuckle 15:31, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge. As suggested by Canuckle, move this article to a new one for the school, within which this sad story would be a section unto itself. PKT 17:02, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I think that is less of a school shooting, and more of a homicide that was blown out of proportion by the media. Perhaps some of the imformation in this article could be moved to another article, such as the school's article, as suggested above. Besides, the article is a stub and it isnt exactly a first class article either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greenboxed (talk • contribs)
Move to C.W. Jefferys Collegiate Institute and make it a section. It would then be easier for readers to find. I doubt anybody will question the notability of the school in light of the shooting and resultant press coverage. --Butseriouslyfolks 18:17, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Surely. Even prior to the shooting, the school was nearly notable enough for an article. -- Phoenix2 ^{(talk, review)} 18:59, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge. Per Canuckle. Many incidents that are not important enough for their own article comprise a section of another article. Pouchkidium 22:47, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The article confuses Wikipedia with Wikinews. — Athaenara ✉ 01:07, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Umm, no it doesn't. It simply suffers of recentism in its present state, so thanks for pointing out something that would seem blatantly obvious. The content is notable enough, just needs to merged into the main school article, which doesn't exist yet. -- Phoenix2 ^{(talk, review)} 01:41, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - unless we want to start documenting every single murder, ever. FCYTravis 08:36, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge. Per Canuckle. Blackjays1 10:11, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or Delete every school shooting-related article linked from List of school related attacks. NorthernThunder 15:46, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- This is not a vote. Please explain why you feel that way. --ElKevbo 16:06, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.