Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Big Pussy Bonpensiero

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to List of The Sopranos characters. There is a clear consensus that this subject does not merit a separate article at this time, and a disagreement as to the next step. A subject need only be noteworthy to be mentioned in an article, and that is clearly the case here. Concerns about manipulation of the resulting redirect can be dealt with through a request for page protection with respect to that redirect. BD2412 T 04:16, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

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What makes this fictional character notable? Seems like the usual PLOT with PRIMARY, failing GNG/NFICTION. Thoughts? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:47, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:47, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or redirect to List of The Sopranos characters. Article is entirely fancruft with no out-of-universe content. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 03:56, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Simply not following Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Writing about fiction, does not mean it should be deleted. It definitely needs improvement, however, fairly easily passes WP:GNG with several book sources and some NYT sources. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 04:52, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
~~Trim and Merge into List of The Sopranos characters.~~ WP:ALLPLOT, only a main character for two seasons (a third of the show's run), no reason why this needs a stand-alone article per WP:SPINOUT. – sgeureka ^t•c 12:12, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Changed to Redirect to List of The Sopranos characters. Interested editors may merge material, but maybe it's best to WP:TNT. – sgeureka ^t•c 12:06, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I understand the inclination to bring articles like this to AFD, since they are largely just plot summary. But I feel like much of the time if just a cursory search for sources is done, it's easy to establish notability, and in the case of this character in particular I think he does satisfy WP:GNG. There are a great deal of books that analyze The Sopranos from a critical perspective, and with just a little bit of minor searching I was able to find several that discuss this character. For example, the book Sopranos and Philosophy: I Kill Therefore I Am discusses how the character reflects mob culture, and how his act of betrayal runs counter to that culture; and the book Tony Soprano's America: Gangsters, Guns, and Money discusses how Tony's feelings about Bonpensiero's death reflect the recurring feelings of guilt Tony occasionally feels for actions, and also has some interesting discussions about how the way Bonpensiero manifests himself in visions and dream sequences post-death are some of the show's strongest examples of postmodernism. Those are just a few examples, there are more. And there are a number of news articles that discuss the character as well; one strong example I found very quickly is this oral history by Variety which discusses how the cast and crew of the show had issues with the way this character was killed off, and how it affected production of the show afterward. These are just a few examples of reliable sources that help establish notability here. The problem here isn't that the article needs to be deleted; it needs to be improved. I'd love to try to do so myself during the AFD process to help demonstrate that notability, as I've done in the past and am currently doing on other pages, but especially with the holidays and all I just don't think I'll have the time. But there is no deadline for such improvements to be made, so in the meantime I believe the article should be kept. — Hunter Kahn 15:34, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
DELETE The article, as it stands, is 95+% fancruft. It should be blown up for now and redirected to the List of The Sopranos characters article. GenQuest ^{"Talk to Me"} 17:28, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or redirect. Sourcing has not been shown to be sufficient to establish notability. I'd say even if there are sources, unless extremely overwhelming, that they'd be better spent trying to get the character list to FA/FL status rather than regurgitate all this info over two dozen articles. TTN (talk) 17:29, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Newslinger talk 22:09, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 12:29, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete then redirect. A side char, esp one that was only in for a few seasons, doesn't quite get the coverage that the main fictional chars have gotten, to justify a whole article. ValarianB (talk) 14:50, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- If the result is redirect, there's no need to delete. We can simply redirect it, and that will keep the edit history intact in case anything needs to be merged to the list article, or if sufficient sources are found for someone to restore and improve the article later. — Hunter Kahn 16:53, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My preference is to avoid any of that, honestly. A plain redirect just makes it into a juicy target for malcontents to come along and revert when they think no one is looking. The likelihood that anything new will be produced about a character who was killed off nearly 20 years ago, i.e. citations to support an article, are nil. ValarianB (talk) 13:12, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I hear what you're saying, though I don't agree; there actually are a ton of sources about this character out there. The books I cited above discuss the character at length, and there are a multitude of news articles and reviews that discuss his role in the show and the parallels to real life mob culture. I just unfortunately don't have the time to add them to the article myself, and it doesn't seem like anyone else has been inclined to do so. So I think if someone decided to restore the page, there would be a great deal of sources they could draw from, and having the edit history intact would allow them to do so without starting the plot summary section from scratch... — Hunter Kahn 14:28, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He is more than notable enough to have a redirect; any other concerns are conjecture and can be reverted on the unlikely chance his page is restored. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 16:15, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.