Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bideford 1st XI

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The keep arguments display a misunderstanding of WP:FOOTYN. JohnCD (talk) 14:03, 27 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Bideford 1st XI

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While well put together, this still has no indication of importance (speedy tags were removed). A "social" football club of a school of 1,000 students, that plays at a field that can host a capacity crowd of 200. Note there is an unapproved version sitting in Articles for Creation here. I had notified the creator that the AfC version would stand until it was reviewed regardless of the outcome of the original CSD nomination.--kelapstick^(bainuu) 08:30, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The team isn't notable. If there was an article on Wairarapa College, the associated school, we could merge to that, but there isn't; that's a redirect to the school district. If someone wants to move the article to Wairarapa College and add some info on the school as well, that would be the best way to save this content. --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:01, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Wairarapa College is the biggest school in the region. Wairarapa United are currently the Chatham Cup holders. This is a significant trophy in New Zealand Sport and has increased the interest at secondary school level in the Wairarapa. The settlement of Bideford has not been represented in Wairarapa sport before and this is significant in the growing towns history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jolliffel (talk • contribs) 11:06, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

According to the Catham Cup page, Wairarapa United is the holder, which is a team in the Central Premier League, not Bideford 1st XI, which is a social football club. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 11:15, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 11:27, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 11:27, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Non-notable school side. Fails WP:GNG and WP:FOOTYN. Mattythewhite (talk) 12:30, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability, school team. Giant Snowman 17:52, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This is a well written article containing relevant information about a notable football club. It is notable due to the strength of the Wairarapa Secondary Schools Premier Division in 2012 and the strength of Wairarapa United. Also a comment for Jolliffel's contribution, he was saying Wairarapa region were the holders not a team at Wairarapa College.
Comment The Wairarapa Secondary Schools Premier Division is a notable competition due to Wairarapa United's, the premier team from the region, status as Chatham Cup holders. Also Bidford is not a Wairarapa College team and is managed from Bideford. Home games are played at the school, by agreement of the school's sports coordinator, due to a lack of facilities in Bideford.125.239.2.200 (talk) 19:15, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Zealand-related deletion discussions. -gadfium 21:54, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Query - hang on a mo, I don't know much about the structure of football in New Zealand, but is the IP above claiming that because a particular team is the champion club of New Zealand, that that somehow makes all football teams from that particular town/area inherently notable? So, by that logic, every amateur, social, pub, five-a-side and kids' team in Manchester is inherently notable because Man U are the Premier League champions? That's possibly the most ridiculous argument I've ever seen in an AfD..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:28, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Of course they are, why shouldn't they?! Pick yourself up, man!!! – Kosm1 fent 08:35, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – obscure school team which fails WP:GNG, obviously. – Kosm1 fent 08:35, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Rename to Bideford, New Zealand and stubify. Inhabited places are notable, even if their sports teams aren't. Alternatively, the closing admin can Userfy to my user space and I'll craft an article on the inhabited place from the current one. Stuartyeates (talk) 22:07, 21 April 2012 (UTC) changing !vote as per article creation by kelapstick.[reply]
- I'm really not sure what we could keep from here in an article on Bideford. Looking at some of the comments above, this doesn't even look like a school team, it is a social team, that plays their games at a school, and is part of the Wairarapa Secondary Schools Premier Division, which has with no weblinks outside Wikipedia. I'll go ahead and start the Bideford article, but I don't think there is anything here to salvage.--kelapstick^(bainuu) 22:33, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - I got edit conflicted typing basically the same thing. There's no point keeping this article and re-naming it/re-writing it to be about a completely different subject which isn't currently covered in the article at all......... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 22:36, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - When you look at the map, I don't think that Bideford has a population the size of a football team...either way, the town article has been created.--kelapstick^(bainuu) 22:48, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - non-notable team -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 22:36, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as above. Stuartyeates (talk) 23:56, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The population of Bideford is aproximately 65. The team play in a notable competition because Wairarapa United scout players directly from this competition (unlike Manchester United from Manchester pub leagues)125.239.2.200 (talk) 00:50, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- *Blink...--kelapstick^(bainuu) 00:52, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - notable competition 125.239.2.200 (talk) 19:26, 22 April 2012 (UTC) — 125.239.2.200 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
- Are there any particular guidlines you'd like to cite to support this verdict? Mattythewhite (talk) 19:31, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep according to WP:FOOTY guidlines a league is notable is the players qualify to play in the national cup competition (Wairarapa United and Chatham Cup). If a league is notable then the clubs that make up that league are notable, but not the individual players or teams with no association to a club.Jolliffel (talk) 04:51, 23 April 2012 (UTC) — Joilliffel (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

WP:FOOTYN says that the club needs to have played in a national cup competition in order to be considered notable. Have they? No. "If a league is notable then the clubs that make up that league are notable"; most times it's true, but you missed the fact that the team doesn't play in a notable league. – Kosm1 fent 04:56, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That is a complete misreading of FOOTYN. The guideline says that a club is notable if it (i.e. that very same club) plays in the national cup. The fact that this club might have players who might theoretically be able to play for a completely different club in the national cup is irrelevant to this club's notability -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:47, 23 April

It is a notable league because "All leagues whose members are eligible for national cups are assumed notable". This football club plays in the secondary schools premier division which Wairarapa United uses to source players. Jolliffel (talk) 09:23, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

By that rationale my son's Timbits soccer team (which was made up of four year olds) was notable because players from that team could eventually go on to play for Toronto FC. Pardon me while I go write an article about the Alligators. As we have said before Jolliffel, you are incorrect in your reading WP:FOOTYN.--kelapstick^(bainuu) 09:32, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do Toronto FC pick players directly from your four year olds team? Do the Alligators play in the local premier division? If so then they are notable and deserve the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.239.13.186 (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It was the premier Timbit league in the Pictou County. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 23:41, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Bideford competes in the Wairarapa secondary schools premier division. Not a junior division, this is an open-grade divisionJolliffel (talk) 05:47, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So it's a high school team? Or a social team? Or a social high school team? Because that is what is difficult to tell from the article. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 06:26, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Bideford are a football club based in Bideford. The article is now more clear125.239.10.144 (talk) 08:23, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The Wairarapa is a large but sparely populated region largely devoted to farming. I'm not aware of them have a single professional team in any sporting league. They do, however, host the annual Golden Shears competition, which is the global premier in it's sport. Stuartyeates (talk) 23:57, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting find. I like it. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 00:07, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There are, however, semi-professional sports teams in the Wairarapa. Wairarapa United are the Chatham Cup champions, the New Zealand equillivant of the FA cup, and Wairarapa Bush were the 3rd division champions in 2005 and the Meads Cup winners in 2006. Wairarapa are also represented in cricket by Central Districts And contributed four players to the 2011/2012 squad.Jolliffel (talk) 05:39, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How exactly do all these make the article in question notable? Until now you have shown absolutely no valid indication about why it shouldn't be deleted. – Kosm1 fent 07:24, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't. I was just explaining the sport in Wairarapa, the Golden Shears was mentioned, purely for interest, so I explained other sports in the area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.239.10.144 (talk) 08:12, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as non-notable football team failing GNG. If another team that its players play for is notable, then it may have an article, however this particular team is not notable as they have not achieved any notability and per WP:BURDEN this has not been established. Cloudz 679 13:15, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, This team is notable within the Wairarapa. The league is used to select players for national cup competitions, as defined as a notable league according to WP:FOOTYN. If the club plays in a notable league this makes them notable.122.57.134.146 (talk) 22:27, 25 April 2012 (UTC) — 122.57.134.146 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Yawn. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:27, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The club doesn't get notability by association. They are in a minor league below the National level, with no recent (past 12 months at least) coverage in any significant national media.NealeFamily (talk) 23:10, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Clearly fails WP:FOOTYN. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 09:32, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.