Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Beyond Words (1997 film)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. I'm not seeing a deletion consensus here. Discussion about redirect or merge can continue on article talk. Spartaz ^Humbug! 19:15, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Beyond Words (1997 film)[edit]

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Non-notable documentary film with no significant coverage in secondary sources that are independent of the subject and no evidence of satisfying WP:NFILM. GSS (talk|c|em) 14:06, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. ~ Winged Blades^Godric 14:11, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. ~ Winged Blades^Godric 14:11, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete-Agree with nom.~ Winged Blades^Godric 02:02, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment--I fail to make heads or tails about the redirect target.I can understand a redirect to the director, but to one of his other films?! ~ Winged Blades^Godric 14:22, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - My understanding is the footage was shot for that other movie, part of that production, and was only released because the other film had stalled. StrayBolt (talk) 16:32, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - If we can't find enough sources, seems like most of it should be merged into a new section of Nema aviona za Zagreb with duplicate material being removed. Change this to a redirect to that section. StrayBolt (talk) 16:40, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support merge/redirect per StrayBolt. Hoverfish Talk 16:48, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- @Hoverfish and StrayBolt: and what about verification? are we going to use those passing mentions? GSS (talk|c|em) 16:58, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - I don't see any indication of OR, "beliefs or experiences of editors" here. I thought the article was nominated only for lack of notability. Hoverfish Talk 21:31, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    - I did say, "If we can't find…", but I think there are more RS out there for notability, perhaps some in Dutch(nl). There are only a few minor claims that would be nice to have more support, although they may already be in the refs provided. StrayBolt (talk) 07:36, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Could be merge/redirected to Nema Aviona Za Zagreb, including the interesting information about the gatefold of Who Came First by Pete Townshend. The article was written before Nema came out. Beyond Words is, however, in all Louis Van Gasteren's filmographies, a film he was apparently proud of. Dazedbythebell (talk) 00:30, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep On thinking about it, it's one of the films of Louis Van Gasteren, who made many short films, and contains material not in Nema Aviona Za Zagreb. Removing this film and not other shorts by Gasteren is simply bias, and has nothing to do with notability. All Gasteren's films are obscure and not well known or written about. The only reason this film was nominated by Winged Blade is that it has Meher Baba in it. He has nominated over a dozen articles with Meher Baba in the last few weeks, and openly admits his intention to perge articles with Meher Baba. See Talk:Meher Baba where he says this. Dazedbythebell (talk) 13:12, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- @Dazedbythebell:--Are you fucking crazy? This was nominated by GSS, not me.~ Winged Blades^Godric 14:18, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- And, I can assure you that I will seek deletion on those other films of Gasteren which doesn't pass our notability guidelines. But, for now this's a ridiculous argument.~ Winged Blades^Godric 14:24, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Dazedbythebell: As the follower of Meher Baba it is reasonable that you think it should be kept but you must be aware that we have some very strict guidelines such as WP:NFILM and general notability guideline which need to be followed. I agree this can be a redirect to Louis van Gasteren#Filmography but there is nothing to merge. GSS (talk|c|em) 16:51, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Netherlands-related deletion discussions. StrayBolt (talk) 16:19, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A mistake as to who of the two started this nomination, is not such a serious blunder as to make one fucking crazy. The rest of Dazed's arguments are true. A heavy bias on attacking Meher Baba related topics is loudly expressed by the very words of Winged Blades of Godric. In this case, the notability excuse is just the means for purging the topic. Hoverfish Talk 11:21, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If lack of notability is an excuse for deletion, let be it.....~ Winged Blades^Godric 13:26, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Hoverfish: as I replied to Dazedbythebell above being a follower of Meher Baba your reaction is reasonable but it doesn't grant you the permission to point the finger on other editors. As per my understanding this article nowhere meets our notabilty requirments which is the reason I nominated it for deletion. Thank you GSS (talk|c|em) 16:21, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 09:39, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete- Fails WP:NFILM. FITINDIA 15:22, 15 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per comments above. Randy Kryn (talk) 08:48, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Randy Kryn: what you mean by per above? we don't have any policy called above but yes we have this essay WP:AADP#Per others, which states, Simply going along with the crowd does not present any new ideas. If you agree with one or more other users, you should specify why you think their ideas are good. Also for your kind information there is only one Keep !vote above which was made by one of Meher Baba's follower and that was not a policy-based reason for keeping this article so can you please explain why this article should be kept as per our policies and guidelines such as WP:GNG or WP:NFILM. Thank you. GSS (talk|c|em) 09:40, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

? I wrote "per comments above", not "per above". The comments and points made by others in this discussion are persuasive. This film, by noted filmmaker Louis van Gasteren, is a fine example of the genre. Randy Kryn (talk) 09:46, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me? please don't forget WP:NOTINHERITED it doesn't mater who made the film or who appeard in the film the topics of our articles must be independently notable. I agreed with other users above that it can be a redirect to Louis van Gasteren#Filmography but keeping this article only because it's a work of a "notable person" is not at all a valid reason. GSS (talk|c|em) 10:13, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.