Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Beaucoups of Blues (song)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus on whether the article meets the threshold for the song notability guideline. In the interests of disclosure I do read German and it wasn't clear to me either. Mackensen (talk) 21:07, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Beaucoups of Blues (song)[edit]

Article on song with no real indication of notability. Unsourced. Prod removed for a pointy reason Duffbeerforme (talk) 07:31, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. —--Avant-garde a clue-hexa Chord ² 07:42, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I would say merge, but what is there to merge? Though the song was released as a single, it doesn't seem to be suitable for an article. The relevant text from the specific notability guideline WP:NSONGS seems to be:

Most songs do not rise to notability for an independent article and should redirect to another relevant article, such as for the songwriter, a prominent album or for the artist who prominently performed the song. Songs that have been ranked on national or significant music charts, that have won significant awards or honors or that have been performed independently by several notable artists, bands or groups are probably notable. Notability aside, a separate article on a song is only appropriate when there is enough verifiable material to warrant a reasonably detailed article; articles unlikely ever to grow beyond stubs should be merged to articles about an artist or album.

This song only charted on one chart, the Billboard Hot 100, at #87, and seems unlikely to grow beyond a few mere sentences in length. Delete. Don't fall asleep ^zzzzzz 08:51, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - non notable song. JoannaMinogue (talk) 08:51, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Beaucoups of Blues (album). Master&Expert (Talk) 09:17, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really see why a redirect would be necessary or useful. You have to, obviously, type in "Beaucoups of Blues" before you can type in "Beaucoups of Blues (song)" and such a redirect would only be useful to people who are familiar with such titles. There are only a tiny number of existent links to this article, and they would take mere moments to remove. I see no purpose to a redirect. Don't fall asleep ^zzzzzz 09:40, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as a non-plausible search term, fails notability per WP:MUSIC#Songs. No awards, no chart, no covers, no WP:RS. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 12:52, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: It should be noted that the single not only charted in the USA - what, it did chart? - but also in Germany at #43 in February 1971. [1] Wow, this is even more disturbing than I could expect. --Avant-garde a clue-hexa Chord ² 13:08, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Did you find that link before or after you suggested the article was worthy of deletion. Did you consider improving the article with this link? Are you defending this article or are you still trying to make a point. Your claim of double standards does not seem to hold water.
- Does anyone know if this is a reliable source? If so and it says what it seems to say ~~the nomination is withdrawn~~. Duffbeerforme (talk) 13:53, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Updated due to continuing discussion. Duffbeerforme (talk) 05:55, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I did not suggest the song for deletion, but contested a proposal for deletion, since I'm quite sure that there's enough 3rd party coverage incl. libraries of secondary literature on everything any of the former Beatles members has ever recorded. I don't have any books on the topic, so can't improve the article much. I didn't even realise that it was released as a single until Nosleep coined the USA charts. Note that the infoboxes for songs and singles are quite often mixed up. It took me less than two minutes to find the charts entry for Germany. Musicline is the reliable source accepted by German Wikipedia (see: link). IMHO the nominator should have done a small research on his own before proposing or nominating the article for deletion (see WP:BEFORE). The best case would have been to improve the article and thus save a lot of time and energy. --Avant-garde a clue-hexa Chord ² 00:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep-Assuming (as it appears to) that the song did chart at #43 in Germany. Nonetheless, the comments above about WP:BEFORE seem a bit harsh in this case, given that the key information in in German. And while I am certain that there are sources for the song, given all the books on the Beatles, the ones I have do have very little to say about this particular song. Rlendog (talk) 01:19, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Two further German charts [2], and [3] indicates that although the single exists it did not chart. No covers of this song either. JamesBurns (talk) 04:04, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The second link provides a chart entry for the sixth week of 1971 but you can't see the exact data because of license issues. The first link does not show any charts data for a couple of singles and albums by Ringo that I checked. I know it works for Swiss and Austria, but seems not to show German data (cross-check this #1 single and musicline). Note that both links you provided are not accepted by German Wikipedia (perhaps because they show no data at all?). I recommend secondary literature on the topic. --Avant-garde a clue-hexa Chord ² 04:24, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

germancharts.com is used on quite a few song articles within wikipedia, and not listed as WP:BADCHARTS. Musicline is difficult to use for most editors as it's all in German (no English language used). JamesBurns (talk) 04:42, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how, even the current #1 song is not indicated, as compared to the start page where the current singles Top10 is listed. --Avant-garde a clue-hexa Chord ² 04:49, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
ps: Have a brief look at this discussion - it does NOT contain German data at all. Note that the site operator is the same for Swiss and Austria where other licenses allow charts data to be shown. Note also, that a warning on the bottom of the page strictly tells you that charts are COPYRIGHTED and are NOT allowed to be posted in this forum. Don't be confused by the domain name... ;-) --Avant-garde a clue-hexa Chord ² 05:05, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

charts-surfer.de is actually used on more wikipedia articles than musicline.de. I don't see it listed on WP:BADCHARTS either. JamesBurns (talk) 04:59, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Charts-surfer tells you that something charted and when, yes. But because of missing licenses it tells you no exact data. I just did some research on recent Top10 hits and they say all the same - COPYRIGHTED. --Avant-garde a clue-hexa Chord ² 05:05, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
ps: THIS is the official site but you have to register and pay... ;-) --Avant-garde a clue-hexa Chord ² 05:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(unindent)Comment-*On link #3 (the Chart Surfer link) I just get a copyright symbol for the chart position. What are you seeing there that states that it did not chart? On link #2 (the GermanCharts link) I don't see any chart information for this song. But when I link to the similar pages for "Photograph" and "It Don't Come Easy", both of which were Top 10 in Germany according to Wikipedia's Ringo Starr discography, I don't see any chart information for them either. So where does that site indicate that "Beaucoups of Blues" didn't chart in Germany, or didn't chart as high as stated above? Rlendog (talk) 14:48, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I see that it charted in the sixth week of 1971. It's the other guy who doubts my source, without taking a closer look at the sources he himself brought into the game. As stated before, it's quite disturbing how sloppy AfDs are handled. We still have more "votes" for deletion (4) than for keeping (1) in this discussion. That's plain ridiculous. I'll add my KEEP, though it does not change the picture much. --Avant-garde a clue-hexa Chord ² 19:59, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I meant my question for JamesBurns, not you. I unindented to make that clearer. The nominator has stated that he would withdraw the AfD nomination if the #43 charting in Germany is true (and my keep vote is contingent on that). So I would be disappointed if links are being provided that claim to show that it did not chart in Germany, if they in fact show nothing of the sort, or if they in fact do show that it charted in Germany but that is hidden from those who do not pay access fees.Rlendog (talk) 20:09, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Five days are almost over, it's hard to admit a mistake. Let's delete it then... (Maybe nobody will recognise!) --Avant-garde a clue-hexa Chord ² 16:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Charted in two different countries. HexaChord should keep in mind that AFD is not a vote, and the closing admin is supposed to take the arguments made under consideration. So if three people say, "delete it, it didn't chart" and one person says, "yes it did and here's the proof", the the closing admin should close as "keep". At least, that's the way it's supposed to work (and I've actually seen it happen!). TheJazzDalek (talk) 17:26, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Obviously, you're allowed to dream of a better world. --Avant-garde a clue-hexa Chord ² 21:23, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure why you are so pessimistic. Nothing has been deleted yet, and you have demostrated that the song meets the notability requirements. No one has effectively refuted your information either. Rlendog (talk) 21:46, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is it pessimistic or just realistic? My source is still doubted and not yet accepted. At least it's 4:3 now, yes. Is this legit for "no consensus" yet? --Avant-garde a clue-hexa Chord ² 21:58, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to the album article. One line blurb about this song, no need for its own article. Lets drink Tea 15:14, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that an article is a stub is no reason to delete or redirect it. There are plenty of valid stubs shorter and less referenced than this one. Rlendog (talk) 17:37, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I'm almost reluctant to say keep because I agree with many of the comments above, but referring to the guideline: "Songs that have been ranked on national or significant music charts, that have won significant awards or honors or that have been performed independently by several notable artists, bands or groups are probably notable." This song is a charting single in the US for a notable musician and should remain. JRP (talk) 17:17, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.