Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Battle of Vidohovë (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. TonyBallioni (talk) 00:43, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Vidohovë[edit]

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Previously soft deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Battle of Vidohovë, but all of those arguments still seem valid to this fork. Courcelles (talk) 18:18, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, Albania, and Greece. Courcelles (talk) 18:18, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I nominated this article for deletion the first time. To give editors further context, they can also take a look at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Albanian–Greek Border War. This article is a leftover POVFORK sub-article of the deleted POVFORK Albanian–Greek Border War, so its existence makes no sense now. Ever since it was restored after the soft deletion, there has been opposition to it in the form of disruption (not that I justify the IPs, but I understand the opposition). There are no reliable sources about this "battle" and that's the biggest evidence that it's fictional, with the "Albanian–Greek Border War" being of the same case. Sources from one side and especially ones made during the communist era (in this case, sources from the totalitarian communist regime of Albania) do not qualify as reliable. I do not know why editors bother to create such types of articles, when they can contribute to existing articles in the topic area of this article, like the Greek Civil War. StephenMacky1 (talk) 19:12, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Apart from the infobox, the entire article is sourced to a single book from 1969 which talks about "monarcho-fascists". If multiple RS are found to eloborate with some details, then a new article can be writen. Ktrimi991 (talk) 20:32, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The sources are given and even if you dont think that the Albanian-greek border war didnt happen and is just part of operation pyrsos , then this should still be a battle of each conflict no matter what you think. News papers talk about this , official modern sources talk about it , older sources fron the time .Modern documentaries have been made about it Etc... . Just because not a large part of greek sources(most talk about conflict small or large with Albania )dont want to mention a loss to Communist Albania doesn't mean it's fake. So stop trying to delete this Truth t (talk) 07:21, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We have policies and guidelines to follow on Wikipedia, so we are not permitted to do whatever we think or want. Albanian communist sources are not reliable for the same reason that Soviet sources are not reliable for example, because they do not give an accurate depiction of the time. By the way, it's not a good idea to have an article about an alleged event which is only depicted by one or two sides (especially when it comes to battle articles), because you cannot possibly have an objective depiction like that. If there are any international and reliable sources, they can be presented here. If you want to add something to Operation Pyrsos or Greek Civil War, you are free to do so, but it has to be with reliable sources. StephenMacky1 (talk) 10:58, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes im aware , but its not fair to just consider every source as unrelaible . It would be dumb of Communist Albania to present an invasion of greece to the meeting with other countries. Never the less we have other Albanian official sources or newspapers from that time just as this one :

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18132354

This is most likely the background to battle of Vidohovë. Anyway what i was saying is that if you think the Albanian-greek war didnt happen then just place the battle as a part of Operation Psyros but dont delete the whole page if its unnesecary . The battle happend ,i dont like the fact that people want to delete this battle like many others were deleted . Its a part of history and we should accept it .

Thank you Truth t (talk) 10:29, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The newspaper counts as a primary source and it does not treat the "Greek invasion of Albania" as a fact. Even this source treats it as an allegation. This was also discussed and confirmed on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Albanian–Greek Border War. I'm sorry, but unless you have reliable sources, there is no reason for this article to exist on Wikipedia. Thank you. StephenMacky1 (talk) 12:47, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As i stated previously there is absolutely no reason albania would invoke a conflict with greece and bring it up to the western powers . Dont you think thats stupid to falsely claim a conflict with someone who is supported by way more allies ? Truth t (talk) 19:28, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also the news paper invokes "Greece trying to invade Albania " so no allegations at all , as it states that the greek state has in mind of doing this among some reasons . And this is obviously not the only newspaper or other source . We also have pther sources that say greece was trying to instigate

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/47670911

Now please there is simply no reason to destroy this page . Its history after all . I don't see how it's a bad edition to wikipedia . Thank you Truth t (talk) 19:33, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Some additional articles

https://memorie.al/en/a-greek-plane-flying-in-the-villages-of-hoxhaj-and-markat-was-shot-down-by-albanian-forces-in-the-area-of-finiq-and-the-pilot-how-did-the-tirana-press-convey-the-provocations-of-august/

So yeah please do not remove this page just because some people wouldnt like to see it .

Thank you Truth t (talk) 19:36, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.