Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bala Hatun (fictional character)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to List of Kuruluş: Osman characters#Bala Hatun. (non-admin closure) — MarkH₂₁^talk 05:33, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bala Hatun (fictional character)

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The article is almost entirely in-universe. The only non-fiction in the article is that the actress who portrays the character received an award, which is already mentioned at List of awards and nominations received by Kuruluş: Osman. The storyline is already summarised at List of Kuruluş: Osman characters#Bala Hatun along with the background, and the fictional positions were already mentioned in the storyline (I think). There is really no point in having this article and it fails MOS:FICTIONAL. I didn't just blank and redirect the page because I thought the creator would disagree with only my opinion. Limorina (talk) 07:58, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Limorina (talk) 07:58, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Limorina (talk) 07:58, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Popular culture-related deletion discussions. Limorina (talk) 07:58, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and fix issues: The article can be significantly improved with real-world information, whilst the receiving of a ‘best actress’ award for a specific country does at least prove relative notability. Granted, the article should have some more real-world perspective, but my efforts to distinguish the reception info from the in-universe perspective of the article as per MOS:FICTIONAL are being constantly reverted by the nominator. The ‘in-universe’ tag conveys the issues with the article perfectly fine. There are articles such as Malhun Hatun (fictional character) and Sally Carrera, which seem less notable than this article. Secondary sources can be found with a search and added, this article is currently in its starting phase. IronManCap (talk) 18:00, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There are Turkish sources that can definitely be found for this character, as in the vein of the Malhun article I used as an example. This deletion nomination is also seemingly a violation of this WP deletion policy, as it requires cleanup, already addressed with a tag, and is seemingly only nominated due to a concern of narrow interest, a reason that this user has cited on my talk page. Neither is a valid reason for deletion per the policy linked. IronManCap (talk) 18:02, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find any Turkish sources indicating anything related to this character or the actress. If Osman Bey (fictional character) was hard to create then this would definitely be. You said that Malhun Hatun (fictional character) is less notable. I don't see how. You continuously ignore the fact that notability isn't based on how much screentime or storyline a character has had but how many sources talk about the character. The reason why Malhun is more notable is because "fans waited for her character to appear for a long time", and there are sourcea saying that. The reason why this article has been nominated for deletion is a violation of WP:Notability (fiction) (which says "Specifically, fictional elements are presumed to be notable if there is significant coverage in independent secondary sources about the fictional element; when a fictional element is presumed notable, a separate article to cover that element is usually acceptable."). You said that this article is in it's starting phase. If that is the case, I'd say you use Template:Under construction and if you can find some reliable sources indicating notability in seven days then the article won't be deleted, IronManCap. Limorina (talk) 18:34, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Another thing, I've seen an article that I created (see this too) be deleted at an AfD for similar reasons as this. If this is a violation of the AfD rules then that article shouldn't have even been taking to AfD. All the other sources talking about this character are simply biographies of the actress and who Rabia Bala Hatun was. Which are useful for an article about the actress or the historical person that this character is based on but definitely not the character portrayed in the series. Limorina (talk) 19:59, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Alternatively, merge with Osman Bey (fictional character): this could be done in a similar way to how characters have been merged into Bamsi Beyrek, Banu Chichek and Turgut Alp (fictional character), as I previously suggested. Maybe either have a section about Bala in that article, or merge the storylines. The Osman article would benefit from the expansion too, Limorina. IronManCap (talk) 21:43, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I would say that we merge it into List of Kuruluş: Osman characters#Bala Hatun. The family (basically the infobox) is mentioned, the storyline is summarized and if you want to add more detail to have it the same size as the Dundar section, IronManCap, then do so. Limorina (talk) 08:03, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. TJMSmith (talk) 20:07, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions. TJMSmith (talk) 20:08, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If there is sufficient existing coverage, then Keep. If this isn't just a current revision issue, then Redirect. Dark knight 2149 11:08, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There is no significant coverage besides news articles talking about Rabia Bala Hatun or the actress' Instagram pics/biography which may be worth an article for the actress but definitely not one about the character the actress portrays. I don't mind about redirect. Limorina (talk) 16:55, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, Limorina, we can merge with the section on the characters article. I think having a picture might still be a good idea though. IronManCap (talk) 20:22, 13 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

IronManCap, you can have an image of various members of the cast (a bit like at the DE characters article) if you wish, I was thinking about doing that but I don't get the time. Limorina (talk) 20:44, 13 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Limorina: I say we do something similar to what I did with List of Diriliş: Ertuğrul characters#Aslıhan Hatun. IronManCap (talk) 01:12, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

IronManCap, I don't mind but I think it might be deleted per WP:NFCC#8 and maybe WP:NFCC#3A. Limorina (talk) 07:48, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Limorina: I don't think so, the 'fair use' rationale is the same as for an image in a character article: 'Depicts the character being described'. IronManCap (talk) 16:31, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

IronManCap, you can do what you wish, I don't have a problem. I'm just saying what got the old Bamsi image deleted. Limorina (talk) 17:53, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.